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Thread: Pylarms & Wasps

  1. #1
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    Pylarms & Wasps

    Can someone please help clarify things for me?

    Back in the 1970's I used to buy BSA Pylarm pellets in .177 & .22. The .22 ones were in a black tin, orange writing (can't remember the .177 tins) but eventually they disappeared. Much later on I remember reading somewhere that Gamo were making them on the BSA machinery & selling them under a different brand name but they werent as good as they were. Is this true? Did Gamo acquire the machinery when BSA went through the changes? If so are Pylarms still available albeit with a different name? If so what is it & what are they like quality wise. My thoughts are that if they are made on the original tooling assuming its not worn & they don't get bashed about then they should be pretty much as they were.

    But

    Then I was chatting to someone who said that Eley made the pellets for BSA, & that they were the same as the Wasps of the same same time........ ( 177 & .22)


    Ok i admit i am totally confused.

    So for both .177 & .22

    Did BSA make their own branded pellets on their own machinery?
    We're the machines sold or transferred?
    Are the original 'Pylarm' tools still in existence?
    Who has them?
    Are they used, if so what is the brand name/maker please?

    And....

    If Eley made pellets for BSA were they the same as 'Wasp'?
    What's the difference between the 1970's Wasps & the current ones, in the blue tin, not the 5.5 ones?

    Thanks in advance to the pellet collectors & historians

    Rod

  2. #2
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    John Knibbs might be able to help you if you contact him and I'm guessing that if anyone knows the answer it would be him. JKI sell Eley Wasp and state on their listing : still made in England (http://www.airgunspares.com/store/pr...5.6mm-Pellets/).

    Not much help I know but it's all of the definite info that I've got to hand. As an aside I half thought that the old Milbro concern were the ones knocking out Wasps at the moment but I'll look forward to much better opinions on the matter when you've got a few more replies under your belt.

    Vic Thompson.

  3. #3
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    Wasp pellets were made by IMI Witton for BSA who rebranded them as Pylarm which was a trade mark owned by BSA.
    Gamo started life as a pellet manufacturer and when they bought BSA in 1986 used the trade mark for .25" pellets made by them and sold by BSA.
    When IMI Witton closed down the tooling for Wasps was sold off. Dont know who bought them.
    BSA never made pellets themselves.
    From a good, reliable source of information

  4. #4
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    Wasp pellets are now made and distributed by John Rothery, and from what I've been told are not of the same quality as when made by IMI. Fortunately, I have enough of the originals in both calibres to see me out.

  5. #5
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    Strange to see this thread as only two days ago i was reading old threads about wasps and pylarm's.
    Form what i read the above reply its spot on.
    No one seems to know who now has the original wasp moulds our even if they still exist.
    I think if exact copies where now available i think there would be a reasonable market for them but they would need to be priced mid range or lower to be competitive.

    Johnj.
    Last edited by johnj; 17-08-2018 at 12:49 PM. Reason: spelling
    Webley Excel, Webley Tomahawk, Air arms khamsin, Air arms Pro Sport, Bam B26-2, Bam B45-3, BSA Mercury, Sharp Innova (licenced Indonesian version).

  6. #6
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    I think I'm beginning to understand the chronology, but the other thing is it seems a shame to me how such a good product can just fade away. I suppose it was a combination of price mixed with the availability of so many 'new' brands being introduced together with the probability that everyone's old BSA or Webley went to the back of the wardrobe to make space for a continental barelled .22 that the Pylarms & Wasps were not generally suited to.
    What's people's impression of 177 Wasps at the moment?

  7. #7
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    The eley wasps from the 1970's-1980's period were wonderful pellets. They just seemed to punch above their weight, and worked really well in the english No.2 bore (5.56mm) barrels.

    To my mind, their success was in the design, and materials used. The lead was harder than most with antimony and other things added. They were also much shorter than most modern .22 designs which seemed to suit, both BSA and Webley rifles of the time. They had quite a high dome to the heads, and their thick skirts seemed to resist deformation better than most other pellets of the period. They weren't cheap, but they were a byword to a quality that was missing from other pellets of the time.

    It is my understanding, that the Eley pellet making machinery was badly worn towards the end of its life, and would have cost so much to replace that it was decided not to bother. The dies themselves were worn and if manufacture was continued they would have needed to have been re-cast.

    Rothery's bought the name/trademark, however their pellets are a completely different design and length. Also they seem to be made of softer lead, with thinner skirts. In short - completely different ( even though the tins look the same) I think most regard the current wasps as plinking pellets at best?

    I wish they would make 5.56mm pellets to the original ELEY specs again, but the market for these now specialist pellets is probably shrinking with each passing year. Modern barrels are in 5.5mm and so do not need the 5.56mm dimensions which are critical for the older barrels. Plus short pellets seem to be out of fashion now with a lot of pellet manufacturers.

    Now would be the time to remake some new dies, while original 5.56mm Eleys are still available, but someone needs to put the case for their production to a major manufacturer before it is too late?

    Lakey

  8. #8
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    Well I'm glad it's not my rose tinted glasses making me think that some of these older pellet types were as good as i remember them.

    I have little idea about what pellet making involves with regard to tooling so I can't comment on how feasible it might be to replicate them. From a fairly non technical standpoint though you hear of scanners linked to multi axis cutters so it would seem possible to generate some form or other of tooling reasonably straightforwardly. I dont see why dimensional consistency shouldn't be extreemly good either. No idea what form the tooling would normally take, for instance are they single cavity tools or in banks of multiple tools. Either way I'd like to think it was possible.
    An elemental analysis of a few samples of original pellets would give the composition of the lead 'alloy' if its not already spec'd somewhere and a hardness value too should help with sourcing the correct grade of raw material.


    Anybody know someone in the pellet making industry ?

    So, is it possible or feasible now due to innovation and changes in manufacturing processes, things that were not around a while back?

  9. #9
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    Look at the label on the package.





    =======================
    Frank

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