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Thread: First Airgun+scope Recommendation

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bruton
    Posts
    6,591
    Murat

    Are you of Cypriot ancestry, by any chance?

    Anyway, I think you have now reached the point where you need to just buy something you like. It may turn out to be what you want, or not, but until you’ve actually owned and used it, you won’t really know.

    Your suggestions above all sound sensible (though, IMHO, don’t worry about regulators, but i make no claim to PCP expertise). Try one, see how it goes.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82
    Yes, I am a Cypriot. Came to the UK in 2015.

    Agreed, I will buy something soon. I am just waiting for the right opportunity and S510R to come out

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East Sussex, Nr Rye
    Posts
    17,109
    You have already covered a lot of ground.
    FFP or SFP is quite a difference in the system; each have their speciality. SFP is easier throughout the mag range, but whatever the reticle adds little to shot adjustment. SFP comes into its own long range and for shot adjustment. The vast magority of my scopes a SFP.
    High magnification above x9 or x14, like x24 or x30 is for range estimation. Specialised again. Match the scope to the rifle and the rifle to the shooting you enjoy.

    As for rifles then buy the one you like.
    You mention cost for a 12ft/lbs rifle compared to a FAC. Well 10m Target rifles cost the most! Many can be be upgraded to FAC if you were to export at some later date (some can some can't). Its not the power, its not the price, its what you can hit with it at whatever the power allows.
    Most of my springers are only good enough to 25 yards, within the farmyard. Some can venture a little further but not much. Cost is irrelevant as some are just ciollectors items and the value reflects their desirability.

    Its quite an investment but you will be shooting your eventual purchase a lot, mabe keep it for years and years. Shooting a 12ft/lbs rifle well is tricky, very once you venture into the wilds. Pin point accuracy is what makes them an effective vermin tool.
    A good rifle that fits you is a good start.

    Keep us informed as its an adventure worth sharing. There are many others in the same boat.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82

    Update

    Hi Guys,

    After lots of reading, looking around and trying, I goy myself used (but like new) AA Ultimate Sporter and Hawke Sidewinder 4-16FFP. I had my first shooting session today and zeroed the scope at 30 yards. It was making small groups but did not have time and opportunity to make proper grouping after having lots of holes on the target while zeroing. But after zeroing, I was shooting metal pigeon target's head and kill zones all day long at 50 (1.5mil holdover) and 70 (3 mildots holdover) yards. I shot 70 yards pigeon target's head at full mag (16X) by holding three mils over and turned it back to 4X and three mils and its bang on. The reticle is very usable at both ends of the mag range. The only thing I did not like about it is, at 16x the focus was snappy and the picture was not as clear as it was at lower mags. The rifle seems to shoot spot on with 4.52 8.44 JSBs, but I also have a tin of AA 4.52s needs to be tested. The only thing I do not like about the gun is the pressure gauge; it does not make any sense. To me it is useless... but refrain myself of getting aftermarket one for now. Thanks for all the advice.

    [IMG]IMG_1663[/IMG]

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East Sussex, Nr Rye
    Posts
    17,109
    Great choice..the important bit is you are putting lead down range.
    Do trust the gun, as generally they out shoot the shooter. Watch out for wind/conditions, and you having a bad day.
    The adventure begins.
    Have fun, be safe.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82
    Blessed with indoor range!

    But once I get to know the equipment and enchance my skill, I can take it out to do some HFT or pest control.

    Cheers!

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Posts
    7,068
    Are you set on a magazine fed rifle? Maybe so because of your 'pest control' note. At this point I am going to put in a plug for the AA S400. Many moons ago when looking for a 'first PCP' I looked at a lot of rifles. I almost decided on a S200 but wondered about it because I found the action felt just a little bit small and fiddly to me. The S400 on the other hand was fine, plenty of space for loading and a very simple, reliable action and accurate too. Shot count was good as well; plenty enough for an HFT course plus some 'zero checking' beforehand and without a regulator. Also, being single shot, it fitted HFT perfectly. If you use a magazine fed rifle you need to remove the magazine between target pegs, which can be a bind. OK, you can get single shot units for some magazine fed rifles, but not all, so you may be happy with that. I bought my S400 s/h and got an extremely good rifle, scope and bag as the deal.
    At the risk of being a kill joy I am going to suggest that with a PCP you would really be better off with your own charging equipment .. bottle or pump. Being reliant on your club sounds fine but, to me, is a bit risky. Many HFT clubs offer a fill service for a small fee but even they have been known to suddenly have an 'empty' bottle or a fill adaptor gone missing.
    At even more risk, I will comment on scopes. Many people will tell you to allow for maybe 40% of the rifle cost to spend on a scope ... or is it a higher %? I do not believe this is necessary these days and there are some excellent scopes at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Now I am not saying very expensive scopes (£300+) are not worth the money, just that a cheaper one at maybe £100 can be just as good. Try and see ... look for a reticle you can see. Sounds obvious but I find some so thin they are difficult to make out against some backgrounds.
    But whatever ... try and have fun selecting your equipment.
    Cheers, Phil

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    Are you set on a magazine fed rifle? Maybe so because of your 'pest control' note. At this point I am going to put in a plug for the AA S400. Many moons ago when looking for a 'first PCP' I looked at a lot of rifles. I almost decided on a S200 but wondered about it because I found the action felt just a little bit small and fiddly to me. The S400 on the other hand was fine, plenty of space for loading and a very simple, reliable action and accurate too. Shot count was good as well; plenty enough for an HFT course plus some 'zero checking' beforehand and without a regulator. Also, being single shot, it fitted HFT perfectly. If you use a magazine fed rifle you need to remove the magazine between target pegs, which can be a bind. OK, you can get single shot units for some magazine fed rifles, but not all, so you may be happy with that. I bought my S400 s/h and got an extremely good rifle, scope and bag as the deal.
    At the risk of being a kill joy I am going to suggest that with a PCP you would really be better off with your own charging equipment .. bottle or pump. Being reliant on your club sounds fine but, to me, is a bit risky. Many HFT clubs offer a fill service for a small fee but even they have been known to suddenly have an 'empty' bottle or a fill adaptor gone missing.
    At even more risk, I will comment on scopes. Many people will tell you to allow for maybe 40% of the rifle cost to spend on a scope ... or is it a higher %? I do not believe this is necessary these days and there are some excellent scopes at the cheaper end of the spectrum. Now I am not saying very expensive scopes (£300+) are not worth the money, just that a cheaper one at maybe £100 can be just as good. Try and see ... look for a reticle you can see. Sounds obvious but I find some so thin they are difficult to make out against some backgrounds.
    But whatever ... try and have fun selecting your equipment.
    Cheers, Phil
    I totally agree with you. Your own charging equipment worths it but the club is the only place I can shoot my rifle now. The more I shoot and more places I found to shoot, I will definitely consider my charging equipment. S200 is a great gun. I shot with it a few times at my local gun club and really like them. But I just wanted a multi-shot system for convenient and possible pest control in the future. I bought both the scope and gun second hand. So, I saved considerably over new prices even though they are like new and stayed within my allocated budget

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82
    5 shot groups in my first session with the AA US (coin is 5 pence). The trigger needs adjustment I think. The reach is quite far, the first stage is short and the second stage is heavy. Please comment on these groups, are they ok? good? bad? decent? half decent? This my first airgun experience so I do not know what to expect accuracy wise. I am hitting steel pigeon's head and kill zone out to 70 yards repeatedly, does this makes me accurate enough for hunting?

    https://imageshack.com/a/img921/2123/e8Mtf2.jpg

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East Sussex, Nr Rye
    Posts
    17,109
    Someone will always do better, but for 30yds its holding it all "there" and within effective hunting use.
    Once taken off the bench out into the open to field conditions then your effective hunting range is how far you can "keep it there". For head shots then its a bottle top or ten pence piece. Only you can practice to find out.

    Looking at your groups there are two parts to accurate. The rifle combination and the shooter. Looking at your groups there is nothing obvious to comment about that I can see. The rifle combination seems accurate and the spread probably accounted for from normal human wobble/input. I can't even see the normal two group heart beat difference that I get now being an old bloke. The different shapes to each group seems to me just the little changes in firing cycle when changing from one target to another. The snugged down for each target group and the tiny differences between shots within strings of shots. Some will be individual pellets, and some the small air drifts that even an indoor range has.
    So basically you are doing all the right stuff.

    Shoot the groups again and you might not do better, or with even more application screw them down a tad more. Having each group look similar and tight is when it might show full rifle combo potential as the shooter input has got to as consistent as its going to get. So sure a little more trigger, breathing, hold, cheek weld, and pure marksmanship might have some room to improve. But not much as it looks pretty ok already. Its the challenge for every group chasing shooter to achieve and prove consistency. Only then can the rifle combination be questioned. Get the trigger to your liking and take some time getting familiar with the new setting.

    You are very close, so just prove a few times more, and build confidence up. When you move to the field that confidence will be challenged again. Practice makes perfect. Trigger time is good, but flogging it isn't. Keep sessions short and often. Application is what counts.

    You aren't far off. After 45 years, 500,000 rounds later, I'm not far off either; in truth now getting less close!

    You should be pretty pleased with yourself.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    Someone will always do better, but for 30yds its holding it all "there" and within effective hunting use.
    Once taken off the bench out into the open to field conditions then your effective hunting range is how far you can "keep it there". For head shots then its a bottle top or ten pence piece. Only you can practice to find out.

    Looking at your groups there are two parts to accurate. The rifle combination and the shooter. Looking at your groups there is nothing obvious to comment about that I can see. The rifle combination seems accurate and the spread probably accounted for from normal human wobble/input. I can't even see the normal two group heart beat difference that I get now being an old bloke. The different shapes to each group seems to me just the little changes in firing cycle when changing from one target to another. The snugged down for each target group and the tiny differences between shots within strings of shots. Some will be individual pellets, and some the small air drifts that even an indoor range has.
    So basically you are doing all the right stuff.

    Shoot the groups again and you might not do better, or with even more application screw them down a tad more. Having each group look similar and tight is when it might show full rifle combo potential as the shooter input has got to as consistent as its going to get. So sure a little more trigger, breathing, hold, cheek weld, and pure marksmanship might have some room to improve. But not much as it looks pretty ok already. Its the challenge for every group chasing shooter to achieve and prove consistency. Only then can the rifle combination be questioned. Get the trigger to your liking and take some time getting familiar with the new setting.

    You are very close, so just prove a few times more, and build confidence up. When you move to the field that confidence will be challenged again. Practice makes perfect. Trigger time is good, but flogging it isn't. Keep sessions short and often. Application is what counts.

    You aren't far off. After 45 years, 500,000 rounds later, I'm not far off either; in truth now getting less close!

    You should be pretty pleased with yourself.
    Thanks for the all the usefull tips. This was my first pellet brand and model try (JSB 8.44, 4.52), I also got a tin of AA 8.44, 4.52 and bunch of other pellet sample packs. After I sort out the trigger issue, and perhaps getting a bipod and playing with the anatomy of the rifle, I will be ready to try pellet sample packs to find which pellet is most suited to my rifle.

    Cheers,

    Murat

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