Webley Mk 3 double pull.

[I. J.]

Not being able to sleep (due to my medication) I was just thumbing through the Wallis & W. Auction (June '06) catalogue, as you do, and noticed Lot 1196. 'A .22 Webley Mk III underlever ..... double pull trigger model ...... WO & QGC to GC (blueing to barrel and chamber worn).' I remembered an article by John Atkins in one of the airgun magazines (Air Gunner. Oct 06) so looked it up. There it was at the top of page 68 with a price ticket of £600 !
'Shirley' this cant be right and probably an inflated price due to, I suspect, bidding fever.
The reason I asked is that I picked up a tidy example while trawling the NW gun shops early this year and I didn't pay anywhere near that! (and wouldn't ) Ive never seen one for sale before so knew they were pretty rare but £600+ rare?

I have read Dennis Hiller book with the warning not to use these rifles due to their fragile triggers and the Chris Thrales book gives no mention of value.

ATB
Ian

[micky2]

Not being able to sleep (due to my medication) I was just thumbing through the Wallis & W. Auction (June '06) catalogue, as you do, and noticed Lot 1196. 'A .22 Webley Mk III underlever ..... double pull trigger model ...... WO & QGC to GC (blueing to barrel and chamber worn).' I remembered an article by John Atkins in one of the airgun magazines (Air Gunner. Oct 06) so looked it up. There it was at the top of page 68 with a price ticket of £600 !
'Shirley' this cant be right and probably an inflated price due to, I suspect, bidding fever.
The reason I asked is that I picked up a tidy example while trawling the NW gun shops early this year and I didn't pay anywhere near that! (and wouldn't ) Ive never seen one for sale before so knew they were pretty rare but £600+ rare?

I have read Dennis Hiller book with the warning not to use these rifles due to their fragile triggers and the Chris Thrales book gives no mention of value.

ATB
Ian

Webley copied the prewar Diana double pull trigger which l belive they used on a few of their models.

[trajectory]

Morning, seem to recall prices around the £180-225 mark for the few of these I've seen advertised over the past few years. Not sure what condition they were in because I never saw them myself but from the description given they sounded reasonably good. Can't really see why one made £600 even if it was truly excellent. Never really understood why the advice was not to use them though, unless they are rare but I've never thought they were that scarce. Unusual maybe, but not rare. I've not seen any similar advice for the Diana / Originals that used what looked to me to be a similar three ball trigger mechanism. Was the Webey design flawed somehow. It will be interesting to see what others might say about this. Have you tried your one out?

[Benelli B76]

I don't think they are that rare, I have spare a one. They say the sharp angle in the casting where the piston latches was a weak point. If you convert the old rifle to a new trigger you have to change the piston as well, see below..

Baz

[IMG][/IMG]

[I. J.]

Have you tried your one out?

Unfortunately due to 'Arthur' Im no longer able to cock a springer. (Rifle not dog.)

Ive not seen one of these for sale in the past 10-15 years. Perhaps I wasn't looking in the right place. My local airgun shop has never had one in in the past 30 years.

It will be interesting to know exactly how rare they are and what, exactly, did the bidder who paid £600 see that I cant.

Thank you for your comments and Baz for the photo.

[Vasbyt]

I saw one in Aim point ( now Derwent air rifles) in Cockermouth last October for around £250, It looked like it came in as a job lot from a collector as there were several other early Mk3s plus super targets etc. I got an early super target instead

[SRV1]

That's the problem I.J. with too many J Arthurs, I can't cock anything let alone those springers.....

[oldcurmudgeon]

The story of the first and second model triggers as told to me by Roy Valentine is as follows.
At the end of the last global blood letting was that during the carving up of German assets both Webley and Milbro were slated for Dianawerke.
While Milbro took the name and products, Webley got 6000 or so trigger and piston units which became the Mk 111.
The first batch of 2500 used the Diana units when the loading tap was changed, but still continued to use the Diana trigger and piston until around serial number 6000 and from then on a Webley design was used.
I to have heard the rumour of the trigger being unreliable but from my own experience with the unit I have to say that this is hearsay that seems to have survived to the present day. In my opinion this unit is better than the much vaunted Rekord unit.

[I. J.]

THANK YOU for all your replies and info. (You can rely on the BBS for answers ).

Could anyone explain why lot no 1196 @ the Wallis & Wallis auction fetched £600?

[Vasbyt]

No idea IJ. Looking at the catalogue here (Grant the Kiwis forum), I can't see any other double trigger models in the line up, perhaps like you said people got carried away in the heat of the moment?
A quick search of this forum gives us an indication of the prices on the day. None are what I would call particularly high prices except for a super target (£550!!) and a webley senior (£670!!)..

[micky2]

Just like most auctions at least 2 bidders with lots of money. didn't a Webley Mk3 /supertarget go for over 1k at Holts including all the fees recently or l am l remembering wrong again.

[I. J.]

No idea IJ. Looking at the catalogue here (Grant the Kiwis forum), I can't see any other double trigger models in the line up, perhaps like you said people got carried away in the heat of the moment?
A quick search of this forum gives us an indication of the prices on the day. None are what I would call particularly high prices except for a super target (£550!!) and a webley senior (£670!!)..

I wouldn't know about the Wobbly pistols but the rest of the lots seem reasonably priced except lots 1196 (and possibly 1200).

[trajectory]

The story of the first and second model triggers as told to me by Roy Valentine is as follows.
At the end of the last global blood letting was that during the carving up of German assets both Webley and Milbro were slated for Dianawerke.
While Milbro took the name and products, Webley got 6000 or so trigger and piston units which became the Mk 111.
The first batch of 2500 used the Diana units when the loading tap was changed, but still continued to use the Diana trigger and piston until around serial number 6000 and from then on a Webley design was used.
I to have heard the rumour of the trigger being unreliable but from my own experience with the unit I have to say that this is hearsay that seems to have survived to the present day. In my opinion this unit is better than the much vaunted Rekord unit.

That's interesting, never knew that. I thought it was just Millard bros. that were connected with Diana by way of reparations, certainly explains the design of the early Webley mk 111 triggers. Still wonder where the idea that they shouldn't be used originated, as per the advice in DH book. Perhaps it harks back to some of those initial components not being finished properly (heat treated?) before they were gathered up & sent..

[johnbaz]

The top one of these is the early two stage trigger type, Can't recall what I paid for it but I think it was around £150, The action needs reblueing too!, The fella had a go with cold blue, It came out rubbish!!



John

[hwtyger]

What a great collection johnbaz!
Ok first one is 2stage. But imo thats something else than double pull which reminded me of 2 sets of triggers like this:
https://www.google.nl/search?q=doubl...Us4Q-j1syML3M:

but its 2stage in case of mk3 than. Ok how do you recognise this 2 stage trigger? (without shooting).