Webley Mk1 Slant Grip Prototype?

[Garvin]

I have to defer to John Mil's great experience on this one but I must admit that if I hadn't seen his post I would have felt that the quality of the workmanship and the high serial number together would have meant it was probably a factory prototype.

A skilled engineer with time on his hands may have wanted to upgrade hs 'old-style' straight grip to a swanky modern slant grip, I suppose.

[Josie & John]

A skilled engineer with time on his hands may have wanted to upgrade hs 'old-style' straight grip to a swanky modern slant grip, I suppose.

That's just what Dr Gilbart said about the conversion he handled. The top catch on this one looks to have been modified/replaced too.

My thoughts are just my opinion on the subject and not necessarily correct but I'd like to see some solid provenance before accepting this as a factory prototype at anything more than face value.

John

[ccdjg]

At first sight I was also inclined to think that this was a modification made by a skilled amateur, who perhaps owned an old straight grip pistol and wanted to bring it up to date soon after Webley introduced their new slant grip design. However, it then struck me that the grip is removable via the two securing bolts (unless I am misreading the pictures). Surely an amateur would have no reason to do this, when brazing would be a much simpler and more effective way of securing the grip to the cylinder? On the other hand, if Webley were contemplating changing the rake of their straight grip pistol it would make a lot of sense to adapt a straight grip pistol in this way so that a variety of grip designs could be tested without having to go to the expense of forging a complete cylinder-grip unit each time.
Another point to consider is that changing the rake of the grip frame of a straight grip pistol could have been achieved in various ways without having to discard the old trigger guard. In this case the new grip frame has an included new trigger guard, which would be an unnecessary and major engineering hurdle for an amateur but not for Webley.

So on balance I think this has a good chance of being a genuine Webley prototype, and could be of historical significance.

[Vic Thompson]

I realise that I'm going against expert opinion, but I'm with Josie and John on this one. IMHO, the images provided suggest a level of "Workmanship" that Webleys (most moderately skilled) "Toolmaking Team of the times" would be embarassed to present for open view.

JMHO,

Vic Thompson.

[Geezer]

I realise that I'm going against expert opinion, but I'm with Josie and John on this one. IMHO, the images provided suggest a level of "Workmanship" that Webleys (most moderately skilled) "Toolmaking Team of the times" would be embarassed to present for open view.

JMHO,

Vic Thompson.

I think I’m with you on that, but, as I said, it’s intruiging, and we’ll never know.

[Diabolical]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, the grips are secured each side with a screw. There are no machining marks visible on the grip frame, and the front end of the trigger guard is 'keyed' into the original frame very precisely. The rounding off of the edges of the grip frame all around match exactly that of what remains of the original frame, which as a model engineer myself would not have been an easy operation. It is a fact that there is no provenance with this pistol hence why I posted on here for any views and information. One point that has not been covered thus far though, why are there no patent markings on it? What is the likelihood of a Mk1 with that serial number having etched markings on it that have long worn off...

[DCL_dave]

Can't quite see, does it have deep socket cap head screws holding the grip frame to the cylinder?...if so, aren't they possibly a bit too modern? ...or could just be more recent replacements so no real clue there I guess?

[Lakey]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, the grips are secured each side with a screw. There are no machining marks visible on the grip frame, and the front end of the trigger guard is 'keyed' into the original frame very precisely. The rounding off of the edges of the grip frame all around match exactly that of what remains of the original frame, which as a model engineer myself would not have been an easy operation. It is a fact that there is no provenance with this pistol hence why I posted on here for any views and information. One point that has not been covered thus far though, why are there no patent markings on it? What is the likelihood of a Mk1 with that serial number having etched markings on it that have long worn off...

If the pistol had been earmarked by Webley's for "chopping about", why would they go to the trouble of putting patent markings on it, surely the frame and bits would have gone straight up to the design shop in a fairly unfinished format. That might also explain why the safety catch block is missing ( or it was removed as being surplus to requirements ( or maybe by this time in the designing process, webley had already made the decision to lose the safety catch?) The thing that bothers me, is why the barrel catch has been redesigned in such a crude way. If Webley was testing the feasibility of a new grip shape, they would have just used a standard barrel catch wouldn't they, since there would have been thousands on hand at the factory ?
Either way, an unusual pistol to have in your collection.