Webley Mk1 Slant Grip Prototype?

[Diabolical]

Good afternoon, I am interested to see if anyone can shed possible light on this recent acquisition. It is a Webley Mk1 pistol with no markings other than a serial number of 47911 in the usual position and 911 on the front lug. The grip frame has been machined across and a new frame with slant grip angle has been bolted up to it with perfectly matching contours (machined at same time as the rest?). The patina of the modified frame also matches perfectly the rest of the pistol so I assume was contemporaneous. The grips have been machined from aluminium flat with great care and attention to rounding off and matching both sides.
Here is a link to a set of photos

https://www.flickr.com/gp/164729373@N04/LXN5Mn

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

[JB101]

just re did the link for you


https://www.flickr.com/gp/164729373@N04/LXN5Mn

[Josie & John]

Good afternoon, I am interested to see if anyone can shed possible light on this recent acquisition. It is a Webley Mk1 pistol with no markings other than a serial number of 47911 in the usual position and 911 on the front lug. The grip frame has been machined across and a new frame with slant grip angle has been bolted up to it with perfectly matching contours (machined at same time as the rest?). The patina of the modified frame also matches perfectly the rest of the pistol so I assume was contemporaneous. The grips have been machined from aluminium flat with great care and attention to rounding off and matching both sides.
Here is a link to a set of photos

https://www.flickr.com/gp/164729373@N04/LXN5Mn

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

This kind of modification has been seen before and I recall the late Dr Joe Gilbart featuring a well made conversion from straight to slant grip in Guns Review during the 1970s/80s. Although well made, it looks a little crude to be a factory prototype but an interesting item, all the same.

Kind regards,

John

[Geezer]

The serial number is intruiging. Straight grips go up to about 50000. So 47911 could be around the time they were planning the change to slant grip.

I guess we’ll never know for sure.

[Garvin]

I have to defer to John Mil's great experience on this one but I must admit that if I hadn't seen his post I would have felt that the quality of the workmanship and the high serial number together would have meant it was probably a factory prototype.

A skilled engineer with time on his hands may have wanted to upgrade hs 'old-style' straight grip to a swanky modern slant grip, I suppose.

[Josie & John]

A skilled engineer with time on his hands may have wanted to upgrade hs 'old-style' straight grip to a swanky modern slant grip, I suppose.

That's just what Dr Gilbart said about the conversion he handled. The top catch on this one looks to have been modified/replaced too.

My thoughts are just my opinion on the subject and not necessarily correct but I'd like to see some solid provenance before accepting this as a factory prototype at anything more than face value.

John

[ccdjg]

At first sight I was also inclined to think that this was a modification made by a skilled amateur, who perhaps owned an old straight grip pistol and wanted to bring it up to date soon after Webley introduced their new slant grip design. However, it then struck me that the grip is removable via the two securing bolts (unless I am misreading the pictures). Surely an amateur would have no reason to do this, when brazing would be a much simpler and more effective way of securing the grip to the cylinder? On the other hand, if Webley were contemplating changing the rake of their straight grip pistol it would make a lot of sense to adapt a straight grip pistol in this way so that a variety of grip designs could be tested without having to go to the expense of forging a complete cylinder-grip unit each time.
Another point to consider is that changing the rake of the grip frame of a straight grip pistol could have been achieved in various ways without having to discard the old trigger guard. In this case the new grip frame has an included new trigger guard, which would be an unnecessary and major engineering hurdle for an amateur but not for Webley.

So on balance I think this has a good chance of being a genuine Webley prototype, and could be of historical significance.