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Thread: What to do with a FWB Sport 124

  1. #31
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    Put this together and would appreciate some snagging. Pictures excepted

    Feinwerkbau Sport 124/7
    The Trigger Unit
    The trigger unit, or block, is fully enclosed in the main cylinder and must be withdrawn to enable dismantling. The block is located and fixed in place by a threaded lug which also forms the rear stock locating/fixing dowel.
    In original trim the mainspring pre load is around 100 mm so before unscrewing the fixing lug it is advisable to use some form of restraining clamp to control the force and reduce the risk of damaging the quite flimsy threads. A spacer is useful to avoid crushing the safety tab.

    As the block travels out of the main cylinder the safety slide becomes exposed and is forced away from the block by the intermediate sear spring. The slide can be taped in place or simply held until fully exposed then removed.

    The pre load now is almost completely removed at 100 mm with this standard spring from T W Chambers.

    The trigger unit with fixed spring guide can now be safely removed for inspection/service.
    Dismantling the trigger unit
    The trigger assembly consists of a trigger blade with adjustment screw, safety slide, main sear, intermediate sear, and two springs, all located and fixed in position by two solid pins. The pins usually push out with little effort taking care that the springs don’t fly away. The front pin pivots the trigger blade and main sear. The rear pin pivots the intermediate sear.

    The layouts above shows the parts in their relative positions. The smaller spring acts, between the front face of the trigger blade and the lower edge of the main sear, to turn the main sear clockwise. The larger spring acts, between the safety slide and the intermediate sear, to turn the intermediate sear anti clockwise.
    On the right the mechanism is cocked, normally by the piston latch rod, with with the intermediate sear preventing the main sear turning to release the latch rod.
    On the left the mechanism is uncocked, or triggered, by the blade turning anti clockwise which turns the intermediate sear clockwise to release the main sear.
    It can be seen that the relative strength of the two springs is critical since the small horizontal spring is trying to force the blade to the triggered position and only prevented from doing so by the larger vertical spring pushing in the opposite direction via the inter mediate sear. This balance of geometry and spring forces is common in trigger devices.
    May be worth mentioning that if non standard springs are used it can result in failure to cock. Same can apply if the vertical spring breaks since the horizontal spring will hold the blade in the triggered position.
    Turning the adjuster screw clockwise will reduce the depth of engagement of the sears and slightly increase the trigger pull needed for release.
    There is a small stop clip on the screw which should prevent the engagement being set dangerously shallow.
    Last edited by deejayuu; 23-09-2018 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DM80 View Post
    Another class airgun at the time was the original 45 it was a great airgun had it all it was strong accurate decent trigger good barrel and even though it used a similar ball detent breech lock up system as the sport it took a lot more force to open than a sport which if a fly landed on the barrel it would open the 45's only downside was it was an ugly mother.

    Dave.
    Nicely summed up Dave. Owning a few Sports and 45s I would say that build quality and finish is pretty much on par with both marques. Aesthetically the Sport is easier on the eye alright and is very pointable as a hunter being lightweight and easy to manoeuvre within woodland on grey squirrels for example. But the 45 is a more robust gun, its trigger superior to the sport despite it being a little shapeless and is certainly stronger (says he who clumsily snapped a cast Sport trigger).
    I find the 45 is easier to achieve a good level of accuracy with over the Sport. Whereas the Sport can get there but requires more refinement of technique and hold. Satisfying when you crack it though.
    Like a lot of guns the Sport is a mixture of high quality German engineering and "what the hell were they thinking of design" such as plastic rear sight, feeble and temperamental safety slide, and basic trigger design and adjustability.
    They are both German guns and get my vote, but the 45 edges it for me. And in respect of the 45's bland stock this has actually grown on me over the years. I appreciate its basic uncluttered lines, especially in the hunting field where I use them exclusively. And for those preferring something a little more mainstream the RWS 45 ticks a box.
    To end on the Sport what were FWB thinking with the Mk3😂😂.
    Dave

  3. #33
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    That's a really helpful guide to the strip, many thanks Jules. I haven't stripped the trigger, I don't think I need to, but I am definitely keeping this for when the need arises

  4. #34
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    Agree with jonnyone.

    The Original 45 was a good few bob cheaper than the Sport or HW35E. They never had the power issues either other than getting too high and the triggers are a tad better than the Sport though not quite a Rekord.
    I like the looks of the 45 just wished it had been offered with a deluxe walnut one, and not that Jubilee edition.
    They were a little weight forward that actually helped for standing shots. They were my recommendation at the time for those on a budget.

    For period rifles then when comparing to those days it should include the Webley Vulcan Deluxe, and BSA's Airsorter and Mercury S's;even a BSF54 and 70. Maybe the Annie 335. The Webleys and BSA cost a lot lot less without walnut, but with them there was only a fiver in it. £77 to £110 was the price spread between all the main contenders, though £30 was "proper" money in 1980. The Vulcan MKI was half that of anything German. A scope £45 to £75 or so with another tenner or so for a set of one piece mounts. A great combo was £200 smackers with gunslip.

    Venom tune was about £25 or 25% of the cost of a factory. A full Venom rifle twise the price.

    Over the next ten years everything was tried. Both Webley and BSA struggled due to a lack of innovation and investment. Their biggest failure was not to give a Rekord breaking trigger. Theoben showed the way in innovation and class of product. But by the 90's PCP's were here to stay. Those that put the innovation and investment in generally did well. Sadly not every innovation worked or new idea succeeded as some were too late; Park Rifle Company 1992; or just not crasy good Sterling.

    A lot happened in the 1980's. A lot was learnt. I think Air Arms does springers now from all those 80's lessons. They just sum up it all in a "best" springer rifle. Spring or even Gasram the piston system can only get so far. Or can it????

  5. #35
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    I never tire of reading people's thoughts with regard to the FWB 124/7 or the Original 45 - both magnificent rifles and, in my view, they can still compete with modern springers, with the exception of the triggers. However, one gets the hang of the triggers and then factors this in. A young friend of mine was astonished at the ability of the FWB127 alongside his HW97.

    "Get a good one and they deliver, but all are a bit twitchy and not the most forgiving being so light weight." Muskett is so right about that but it is not so difficult to get the hang of the FWB after some target shooting. It needs sympathetic and careful handling, not least because of the light weight. However, I fear - despite what Muskett says - that it is not so easy to find one for sale. I looked for sometime before finding one earlier this year. The owners seem reluctant to part with them.

    Now I have got the hang of it, I have found the 127 performs extremely well with Accupell and H&N light. It is highly accurate at 45 yds - approx. 3/4in groups; I have not tried greater lengths.

    I am almost tempted to buy another but perhaps that would be an unrequired luxury just for viewing purposes.

    There is, as others have mentioned, a problem with the breech lock-up which is not a solid as that on the 45. So far, it seems not to have caused any difficulty and I keep my ball-bearing well greased with Abbey LT2 gun grease.

  6. #36
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    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DM80 View Post
    The fwb sport was a nice gun but it was nothing special I've owned many over the years it had its faults and to be fair the barrel lock up was piss poor its trigger unit was average at best its plastic sights are rubbish and the recoil was not good if you could shoot one in the day accurately you were a superstar a modern day lightweight Springer in the same class say a hw95 or hw99s are far superior in all departments ie build quality trigger mech and overall accuracy but the fwb was a pritty gun.

    Dave.
    This assessment of the Sport is fine as far as it goes, with the benefit of hindsight and 20/20 vision.

    But it fails to take into account the special place the Sport occupies in the history of FT shooting, or the affection in which it's held by many airgunners, myself included, who have owned one since the early '80s. The top quality of the cylinder, the barrel, the finishing of the metalwork, the fact that it was the only sporter produced by one of the most successful match airgun manufacturers ever, all make its flaws tolerable.

    Yes, they may not compare well against some air rifles made since, or even perhaps at the same time, but they have a character that endears them to collectors in a way that other rifles just don't.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    This assessment of the Sport is fine as far as it goes, with the benefit of hindsight and 20/20 vision.

    But it fails to take into account the special place the Sport occupies in the history of FT shooting, or the affection in which it's held by many airgunners, myself included, who have owned one since the early '80s. The top quality of the cylinder, the barrel, the finishing of the metalwork, the fact that it was the only sporter produced by one of the most successful match airgun manufacturers ever, all make its flaws tolerable.

    Yes, they may not compare well against some air rifles made since, or even perhaps at the same time, but they have a character that endears them to collectors in a way that other rifles just don't.
    Couldn’t have put it better.

    There’s a reason why people (me) bought the FWB over other choices in the late 70s and early 80s, despite it costing more than the others. Light weight, handling, cocking effort, build quality, looks, accuracy....

  9. #39
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    HW77 is so much easier to use, strip and will last longer than its owner.

    Fit one with the barrel from a Feinwerkbau Sport and you have a super dooper springer!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    HW77 is so much easier to use, strip and will last longer than its owner.

    Fit one with the barrel from a Feinwerkbau Sport and you have a super dooper springer!
    Yes, but the 77 came out in something like late 1984 (and the HW80 in around 1981, and IIRC the Diana 45 in about 1978), whereas the Sport was available from 1973. That’s a good long run as the best gun, or one of the best, in town.

  11. #41
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    For a good while the choice was an Airsporter, a Webley MKIII, a HW35, maybe a BSF S70 or Annie 335.
    Later to add to the mix an Airsporter S, HW35E, and Original 45. BSF went bust. The Webley Vulcan was half the price of these. Or the Jap Sharp pumper.

    Later again the HW80 and HW77, with Theobn just starting out.

    There wasn't much else other than a Sussex Armoury Hi Power

    By 1986 tuning was happening. The Vulcan an Omega. Theoben had German barrels, and Air Arms was in business. And the first PCP's started to appear. Webley and BSA were doing their best to go bust. BSA's Superstar was on the drawingboard and the Sterling was history as were the Brockets cartridge system for rifles. But at least people were hitting things out of the farmyard and knock down targets were being placed at 40m!

    Late 80's annoyingly the FWB MKIII came out and that really didn't help the Sport. The Orinal 45 in .20 was being discounted. Things had moved on. The HW77 rule had been usurped by the PCP done by the likes of Daystate and Theoben's Rapid 7. No looking back after that.

    Again HW's should have been issued with a wheelbarrow. The FWB was The rifle for a young teenager around the farmyard and hedgerows, plus it had a 4x40 or 3-9x45 scope. The trigger fantastic compared to the Vulcan MKI or BSA Mercury.

    The HW95 is probably the nearest thing to the Sport now. They are flighty too because of the weight. I have both and the 95 needed tuning up to work well.
    Last edited by Muskett; 24-09-2018 at 12:20 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Yes, but the 77 came out in something like late 1984 (and the HW80 in around 1981, and IIRC the Diana 45 in about 1978), whereas the Sport was available from 1973. That’s a good long run as the best gun, or one of the best, in town.
    For sure, I am not doubting its supremacy for a good long time. I think the Sport was out earlier than 73, and I am sure the 45 was out later, in about 1981.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    For sure, I am not doubting its supremacy for a good long time. I think the Sport was out earlier than 73, and I am sure the 45 was out later, in about 1981.
    Original 45 was introduced in 1978, not sure about the FWB. I have no real experience of the Sport but I'm enjoying this thread just the same.
    Perhaps I'll catch up with one some day.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew451 View Post
    Original 45 was introduced in 1978, not sure about the FWB. I have no real experience of the Sport but I'm enjoying this thread just the same.
    Perhaps I'll catch up with one some day.
    Do it
    Dave

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernal View Post
    Ever since I got my 300, I have been an admirer of the sheer quality of FWB, and after I had shot Gary's V-Mached 124 at a Boinger Bash I knew I had to have one. The 124 is not too common, and it has taken me all summer to find one, so I really had to buy the first one I saw advertised. Getting it home, I took stock of what I have got - an early mark 1 with no sights, but a very nicely re-blued barrel and cylinder, a pleasant trigger fitted with a metal blade and a decentish stock which does need a bit of work to remove a few annoying marks, and will probably have to be refinished. The bad news was that it was only producing 9.4 ft lbs, and the firing cycle felt and sounded like a toy train crash, so my initial hopes of not having to dismantle it were scuppered from the start. Inside I found a spring of unknown origin, with only about an inch of preload (a bit of a shock, as I had prepared for about 4 inches) and what I believe to be a Maccari seal fitted to a piston which has rather been through the wars - it has marks which suggest it has been gripped in a vice a few times in its life. Fortunately the marks all seem to be inwards, and have not made any visible scratches on the inside of the cylinder. A simple polish will leave the piston quite usable.

    So what should I do now? Plan A was to restore it to original spec with an original spring and seal, which I thought with its long preload should give a nice soft firing cycle, but I have since been advised, on the very best authority, that the 124 had a reputation as a scope wrecker, which implies an unpleasantly heavy recoil. Plan B is a V-Mach kit, which I know to make a very pleasant gun, but is a long way from the original. But are there other things I could do, or other tuning kits I could use which would let me enjoy the gun without losing the spirit of the original? I am not looking for ultimate performance, I would just like to get pleasure from a fine old lightweight sporting rifle.

    Advice from experienced FWB users would be greatly appreciated.
    Hi Michael,

    If you like how the V-Mach kit shoots in the 124 why not go down that avenue? I can't notice any real difference in cocking effort and I think the cycle is greatly improved. Also, I would feel fairly confident of stripping it down and rebuilding it without a compressor if needed, which I wouldn't have a chance with the original spring.

    The trigger on yours is as good as any Sport I can remember, I wish mine was as nice. Jon Budd posted a thread showing how to improve the trigger but as I have just basic tools I don't want to risk damaging my Maccari as it cost me nearly £100 with postage and import duty.

    As for open sights, if you post a "Wanted" ad you may be able to get hold of a rear one but depending on how detailed you want to be, the .22 rear sight has different numbering on the height adjustment compared to the .177. Your barrel is the less common type (in my experience), which is scalloped to accept the pin to fit the wrap around foresight unlike the more common parallel grooved type. You might have to wait a while to get the correct one.

    Are you going to refinish the stock yourself? If not, I can recommend Nath92, he's a member here but spends most of his time on the AGF where he is currently offering stock refurb's for £65 and has one slot available.

    Whichever route you go down I hope you bring it to the Bash when you finish it and let me have a look.

    All the best,
    Gary.

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