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Thread: Kriss Defiance DMK22C .22LR

  1. #1
    boff180 Guest

    Kriss Defiance DMK22C .22LR

    Hi guys,

    Picked this up a week ago and have managed one range visit using the open sights so far but thought I'd write a short first impressions review.
    More info on this rifle can be found here:- https://kriss-usa.com/rifles/rimfire/dmk22

    What is it?/
    A full metal construction .22LR AR-15 platform designed in the US as a training rifle, built to full mil-spec.
    The manufacturer are famous for producing innovative firearms including the unique Vector SMG.
    A unique feature being the barrel is from a 10/22 and any non-carbon fibre 10/22 barrel can be fitted to the gun.
    All the AR features work, including the forward assist and the rifle comes with a 15 round magazine (10 round also available) which, auto last round hold open works.
    The gun is also compatible with many AR-15 .22 mags on the market, the marketing materials directly quote Black Dog and S&W MP15 mags as working.

    What do you get in the box?
    A proofed rifle fitted with iron sights.
    1x 15 round magazine
    Manual
    Shotlock

    What did the rifle cost?
    875 with two extra magazines (currently on back order) plus 20 shipping which the distributor charged my RFD for ordering one!

    What are the sights like?
    Pup-up and fully adjustable. The front post sight is adjusted for elevation and the rear sight for windage. The rear sight has to apertures which are selected by flipping over the plate... one being a wide ghost ring for rapid fire/acquisition, the other is a peep sight for accurate shooting.

    What is build quality like?
    Excellent, everything fits together snuggly and due to it being metal, it feels like a proper AR. As with all AR's, cleaning and maintenance is easy.

    What are the magazines like?
    The 15-round is very easy to load and takes little effort to reach capacity (unlike a Black Dog), due to the short stature of the magazines it is very easy to bench rest the rifle. The magazines feed reliable and drop from the mag-well upon pressing the release button. They active the last round hold-open through a notch on the back of the mag.
    I also tested a variety of Black Dog/Sig-522 magazines in the rifle and can confirm these worked flawlessly. Obviously the last round bolt hold open doesn't work but sometimes that can be a luxury.
    I also tested a CMMG .22LR AR-15 magazine and can confirm that this did not fit in the mil-spec mag-well. I can only assume CMMG magazines are not to mil-spec dimensions.

    How did it shoot?
    Shooting off iron sights at 25metres, the gun showed some accuracy potential. I intend to try it out property on the 50metre with a scope to find out how good it possibly could be if fed decent ammo. However on a standard Shoot-n-see target, I scored 13 bullseyes out of 15 shots with the other 2 in the 9 ring, with the main group producing a single ragged hole just right of the 10x.
    Quick photo of the target here:-
    Click Me for Image
    Ammunition wise, there appears to be no need to run this gun on high velocity ammo (although I wouldn't recommend Geco), I ran 200 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity through the gun without a single issue. Considering this is a brand new gun that needs running in, that is impressive.

    Anything you need to change?
    As a leftie, the rifle only comes with a standard mil-spec single sided safety. Which is a pain. Luckily it is extremely quick and simple to swap this for a aftermarket ambi-safety. All you need is a 3/16th" allen key or wrench long enough to reach the screw in the bottom of the handle, the replacement part should come with everything else. Swapped mine today in under 5 minutes.
    Also, the trigger is a little basic. Consistent but feels a little agricultural. In the long term I may swap this out for a drop-in match unit. The beauty of this gun being mil-spec is that they should fit without a problem.


    That's all for now, hope someone found this of interest.

    Andy
    Last edited by boff180; 23-09-2018 at 07:37 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    boff180 Guest
    Short update firstly, I am going to change the trigger.

    However mainly I must stress the gun mart and What Gun? reviews are wrong the forend is NOT M-LOK compatible!

    There is limited information available on what attachments would work however U.K. reviews claim it to be M-LOK.

    I’ve just wasted 30 on the magpul bipod adapter to find it doesn’t fit. Whilst the holes match the screw hole locations on the adapter, it sits proud rather than in the locking lugs due to the slots being too short. In addiion, the screws provided with M-LOK equipment are a wider diameter than the screw holes. The slots are also too wide for the locking t nuts to work.

    Not a criticism of the gun really, more a criticism of poor reporting. Not impressed.

    EDIT - I’ve now heard from Kriss who have categorically confirmed the forend is not M-Lok compatible. You have to acquire their own proprietary rail expansions.
    Last edited by boff180; 03-10-2018 at 03:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Huddersfield, UK
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    1,557
    Thanks for the write up...I want one. How much is the trigger upgrade? . Do you know who the UK importer is?...prices seem to vary a lot...your deal seems pretty good.

    Rob

  4. #4
    boff180 Guest
    Thanks for the question.

    Trigger jobs come in all different prices, as the gun is mil-spec most - if not all - commercial AR15 triggers will fit the gun, these range from 80 to 400 and can be purchased via retailers such as Rifleworks or Brownells. There are two types, a parts kit where you assemble the trigger yourself or, the second type is a drop in unit. The latter is very simple to install... pop out the two retainer pins holding the trigger and hammer mechanism... remove all the parts... put the unit in its place, reinstall the pins. Job done.

    The importer and distributor of the rifle is Shield Sights. www.shieldpsd.com

    I purchased the required expansion rail off him last week, friendly company owner and the process was very quick and simple.

    Andy

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    East Sussex, Nr Rye
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    Another .22 tactical that cost $640 in the USA and costing almost double in the UK. Same as the Sigg 522 was hugely overpriced for what it is.
    These should be $= plus a smidge so 650; 750 max.

    Yes I do know all the costs involved bringing them in. Between agents and retail they are putting 100% on the price. Most guns in the UK make nothing like that. It would probably be cheaper to fly to the USA and bring one back.
    Add a trigger worth having and the sums just don't add up.
    For that reason I've lost interest.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland.
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    4,801
    Well I shot my pals Kriss this morning and I loved it.. he has a different rail on it than standard and a wee vortex on top.. brilliant fun.. very accurate.. he has had 500 odd rounds through it so far with no jams, misfeeds or any type of malfunction... it's a solid wee gun and will ragged hole off a rest at 25m (our max range).
    I've not shot any other .22 ar types but to me this sets a pretty high benchmark...

    I also got a wee shot of a gsg mp40! Loved it.. the owner promised me a go of his stg44 next time!!!
    Donald

  7. #7
    boff180 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    Another .22 tactical that cost $640 in the USA and costing almost double in the UK. Same as the Sigg 522 was hugely overpriced for what it is.
    These should be $= plus a smidge so 650; 750 max.

    Yes I do know all the costs involved bringing them in. Between agents and retail they are putting 100% on the price. Most guns in the UK make nothing like that. It would probably be cheaper to fly to the USA and bring one back.
    Add a trigger worth having and the sums just don't add up.
    For that reason I've lost interest.
    You're forgetting advertised prices in the US don't include tax. A quick run down of the maths of importing a firearm in to the UK shows the price is actually pretty much spot on and not over-inflated. It's the cost of doing business in the UK, I've detailed below.

    MSRP is $699 so, say wholesale price is 10% less (based on a quick google of US discussion forums on their RFD mark-up being 5-15%) so that gives a wholesale cost of $629.

    A) to $ is currently 1.32 therefore direct UK conversion is 477.
    B) Import duty on the wholesale cost @ 20% = 95.

    C) Gun Cost to the UK Importer say = 572 (A+B)

    D) Shipping costs from the states, Say = 60 per gun
    E) Import duty on shipping costs @ 20% = 12 (know first hand this is charged by the UK, been stung - twice).
    F) Proofing of firearm in UK = 20

    G) Total Cost preparing for sale in the UK = 664 (C+D+E+F)
    H) Profit at 10% = 66

    I) Sale Cost before VAT = 730 (G + H)
    J) Sale VAT @ 20% = 146

    K) Purchase Price to UK Customer = 876 (I + J)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    East Sussex, Nr Rye
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    14,593
    We had Sig 522's over here for under 400. I suspect these aren't more expensive. Exchange rate was $1.51. Think they were 477 after all taxes and expenses out of the proofing house. Think we charged 650 or so.
    (I only brought the Sigs over because I was so annoyed with the UK rip off prices. The figures above are what I remember rather than from the books so don't take them as gospal. For our efforts we took a tad over 100. I agree there is considerable effort involved.)

    But over 800 for a $560 rifle is eye watering.
    Last edited by Muskett; 14-10-2018 at 12:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    driffield
    Posts
    1

    Nice review

    Just waiting on my first FAC. Been a SG certificate holder for many years. Decided this renewal I'd go for both. I fancy the DMK22 or an M&P 15-22. The Kriss feels much nicer to hold but I'm going to visit a range and try both back to back then hand over the visa card :-)

    Have you tried M&P mags in it? Seems like bolt hold open will be a decent advantage for practical shooting / quick mag changes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Manchester
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    1,872
    Have you had a broken firing pin or had the bolt catch break yet?

    I've seen numerous reports of these issues, but outside of a FB owners group nothing is being said.

  11. #11
    boff180 Guest
    Nope,

    However those sort of breakages need to be put in context to how the rifle is being used.... what type/power of ammunition (I've found Minimag completely unnecessary) and how many rounds are being fired in rapid succession and at what rate? Also, are they dry firing when clearing the gun?

    I must say the only feed/eject issues I've had have been with Minimag, the action doesn't need powerful .22 ammo, it works perfectly fine on CCI Standard.

    There is a titanium firing pin available as an aftermarket accessory. https://www.valmontfirearms.net/prod...ium-firing-pin

    Andy

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Huntingdon
    Posts
    9,273
    Mazama shooting and Fishing in Eugene, Oregon sells this excellent little rifle for $599 OTTD.

    No sales taxes in Oregon.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    huddersfield
    Posts
    76
    i have one of these and the m&p 15-22 luckily as the the 15 round magazine that came with the Kriss wont hold open on the last round. However the m&p magazines hold it open every time so i just use them now.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    7
    I shot a friends one of these are *really* enjoyed it - tossing up the options of the Kriss vs S&W given the cost difference, but no doubt the Kriss is the better made gun... i think decision may be made

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    39
    I have done both kriss and s&w which was great you could share magazines. Kriss better built and more accurate in my opinion. Kids preferred s&w as lighter

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