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Thread: New pcp, when is it not good enough ?

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    New pcp, when is it not good enough ?

    OK, heres a question thats needs an answer as Ive been talking to a friend about a thread on another forum and we couldn't agree

    With a new pcp rifle, what is unacceptable grouping at any given yardage and at what point does a manufacturer have to accept its no good and refund or replace, is there a given accuracy standard allready that has to be delivered by the said rifle as we buy rifles to hit things dont we, be it targets or vermin. Would the group size be considered the same for any pcp rifle

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    tinbum's Avatar
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    As a minimum for a hunting gun I would expect ten shots covered by a ten pence piece at 30 yards. That's rested, in perfect/indoor conditions with it's preferred pellet. I would expect more, but if it couldn't do that it would be going back.
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    Realistically I'd expect 10 shots within a 5p at 30m rested indoors - outdoor testing is harder to gauge, and you also have to give leeway for pellets and shooters skill - so there is a big variable that one shooter could have that another with a bit of time and patience could halve the group size of

    I'm certain there is not an "industry standard", and I think you have to judge a £2k target rifle different from an S400 - although in good examples you may struggle to tell the difference - but the way the law works regarding "fit for purpose" is that it does take price for quality and performance into consideration - if you bought a Stoeger and came last in every bench rest comp you entered, then the law would say - that is probably what you should expect give the quality and price of the gun, and that would be acceptable for an average shooter.

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    Gareth W-B is offline Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post

    As a minimum for a hunting gun I would expect ten shots covered by a ten pence piece at 30 yards. That's rested, in perfect/indoor conditions with it's preferred pellet. I would expect more, but if it couldn't do that it would be going back.
    This, sort of, except I would expect the ten shot grouping to be covered by a current British 1p piece at 35yards (my preferred zeroing distance), as my very basic, standard, single shot .177 BSA Scorpion PCP air rifle delivers. Fwiw, I also expect -- and recieve -- the same level of accuracy from my .177 Air Arms TX200HC springer, and would view any PCP which can not achieve this, as not being fit for purpose (and cr@p) ...
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    I would expect a new PCP on a shooting rest, so no human interference, to shoot a single ragged hole something between 5p & 1p size on an indoor range at 25yds.

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    Gareth W-B's Avatar
    Gareth W-B is offline Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post

    I would expect a new PCP on a shooting rest, so no human interference, to shoot a single ragged hole something between 5p & 1p size on an indoor range at 25yds.
    Agreed, although as said above, sub 12ft.lb (and in .177), I would expect that at 35 yards (but would maybe wear 25 or 30 yards if in .22).
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    Perhaps I’m over critical of my equipment here, but in the “perfect” scenarios described I would expect at my zero ranges (which are 35yard for .177 and 30yard for .22 at 12ft/lbs) all shots in the same place. A PCP is recoiless and in its sweet spot should be more than capable of that consistency.

    Any thing wild of the mark that couldn’t be put down to pellet performance or my user error (which is more than I care to admit ) wouldn’t sit well with me.
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    I know what I’d expect as an acceptable group size at a given distance but I wonder what the various air rifle manufacturers would class as acceptable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps norton View Post
    I know what I’d expect as an acceptable group size at a given distance but I wonder what the various air rifle manufacturers would class as acceptable?
    My point indeed Lee, how bad does it have to group before its deemed faulty ?

    Pherhaps there should be a recognised test ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32:1 View Post
    My point indeed Lee, how bad does it have to group before its deemed faulty ?

    Pherhaps there should be a recognised test ?
    Setting aside the vagaries of shooter, scope and pellets, (and how many shots in a group, as more shots = bigger groups) I can’t imagine an “industry standard” that applied to anything from a budget Chinese rifle (£250) to a high-end FT or 10M job (£2000+).

    A lot of users (plinkers, barn hunters) of the former would be happy with 20-25mm at 30M (though I wouldn’t). The owners of the expensive stuff would want those figures at least halved, probably less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jps norton View Post
    I know what I’d expect as an acceptable group size at a given distance but I wonder what the various air rifle manufacturers would class as acceptable?
    I'd be interested to hear what Hull cartridge / HW say on that
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    Hey Geezer, the budget Chinese rifle (£250 )... would that be one of the new CHIANA pcp's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spitzer View Post
    Hey Geezer, the budget Chinese rifle (£250 )... would that be one of the new CHIANA pcp's
    Yup. Or the SMK Victory, or whatever it’s called over here.

    I do like Dianas. But I appear to own none made in this century and definitely not this decade, let alone the last couple of years. That may tell you something.

    Though the Kar98K lookalike, 300R and 430 are all tempting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCPShooter View Post
    I'd be interested to hear what Hull cartridge / HW say on that
    Judging from various posts over the years, many of the importers/wholesalers (not just HC, plague be upon them) will start by denying there is a problem, then if pressed say they’ve fixed the problem when they haven’t really and if further pressed finally fix it or replace/refund. Not all, but many.

    The sort of customer service that guarantees they lose a long-term customer in the service of preserving short-term profit.

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    For a modern pcp air rifle I would expect one hole/ragged hole groups at 35 yards with jsb pellets. I've pretty much owned them all over the years and if thy don't do that then something is wrong . Accuracy aside the price is governed by materials used and function. The air arms s200 represents the entry
    Level pcp and it's as every bit as accurate as a steyr . The Steyr layout makes it easier to reach that level but the s200 is as capable.

    So if your gun isn't producing the accuracy that you want it could be pellet type, it could be fill pressure, it could be a bad barrel, it could be you , it could be a mis aligned shroud etc etc etc. But if / when you have ruled out all of these and it's still throwing a shotgun pattern then it has to go back.

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