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Thread: Shooting Class Categories

  1. #16
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    But also many serious HFT competitors are also taking up boinging at top level and now its becoming more popular and visual

    What? Rex, you've gone MAD, like Simmo says (other than Lockett) there's not 1 decent shot in the LGBT classes, if a top shot bothered to pick up an inferior gun (God knows why anyone would), then you'd change hobbies within a season. As for trophies, if that's what you are really going for, then that's the losers stance straight away. Losers go to "enjoy their hobby" or self congratulate on their sixth place in the "Sharp Innova category", winners go to WIN. Look at how many PCP shooters that can't make the grade, put their tails between their legs and buy some crappy old springer. If it was down to me I'd give 1 trophy out at the end of the day..... WINNER. Of course the weak would stick their bottom lips out and small children would cry, but they'd either come back stronger or join the losers.
    I'm thinking of a HW97, any good?
    Rich.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderboy View Post
    But also many serious HFT competitors are also taking up boinging at top level and now its becoming more popular and visual

    What? Rex, you've gone MAD, like Simmo says (other than Lockett) there's not 1 decent shot in the LGBT classes, if a top shot bothered to pick up an inferior gun (God knows why anyone would), then you'd change hobbies within a season. As for trophies, if that's what you are really going for, then that's the losers stance straight away. Losers go to "enjoy their hobby" or self congratulate on their sixth place in the "Sharp Innova category", winners go to WIN. Look at how many PCP shooters that can't make the grade, put their tails between their legs and buy some crappy old springer. If it was down to me I'd give 1 trophy out at the end of the day..... WINNER. Of course the weak would stick their bottom lips out and small children would cry, but they'd either come back stronger or join the losers.
    I'm thinking of a HW97, any good?
    Rich.
    And sanity entered the building.

    Off to break my fingers as I have been drinking. Oh fluck before I do. So you pitch up with sub standard/gear not up for the job and bitch when the trophies don't go down to twenty second. I tell new people it is hard flucking hard I tell them what is competetive and they choose some updated dinosaur to only help highlight their inadequecies. Tomahawks work but a chainsaw is better. Agree with Dop one winner. and 2nd is first last who wants a trophy for being last. Its a competetive sport not a I lost less than you gig, Its almost Xmas weigh in your springer actions should get some mulled wine with the money from the scrappy and burn the stocks for some warmth. Then get Santa to bring you a PCP god forbid not in .22 and come play the real game. Not spend an age whinging about how un springer friendly that peg was. I am retired and have no clue how you get time to try to make something work on a modern HFT course that obviously won't.

    Monkey
    Buxted HFT Garage Guns are Us. Home of Crowzilla Doppers doughnut corner and SiHFT winners 2007 2008 2009 2010 2017 2018 2019.

  3. #18
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    OOOpppssss

    well that's one thing I've been right on , it definitely opened a box of frogs .

    Not everyone who shoots HFT , aspires to be a superstar or world champion or even part of the in crowd , me being one of them ...... many shoot for the craic, amongst other reasons .

    maybe some would like to shoot on an even playing field , after all if i entered an HFT shoot with an all singing all dancing pcp but was shooting it at over 12ft/lbs people would be up in arms , as rightly so it isn't even in the same ball park let alone an even playing field .

    so by going on the previous couple of posts , why are there any categories at all ?, is the dollar that the people who shoot in an "inferior" category not worth the same as all the pcp shooters money ?.

    We are not worthy , we are not worthy !!!!
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderboy View Post
    But also many serious HFT competitors are also taking up boinging at top level and now its becoming more popular and visual

    What? Rex, you've gone MAD, like Simmo says (other than Lockett) there's not 1 decent shot in the LGBT classes, if a top shot bothered to pick up an inferior gun (God knows why anyone would), then you'd change hobbies within a season. As for trophies.
    Rich.
    oooooo Dop are you trying to get me going or something. Many statements there. 1st being about Jason. He bought an amazing boinger for 1200 thinking he is just going to pick it up and kick ass. He was put through the wringer the first time he shot and just about managed a 30. Its now in his cupboard and will never see the light of day again.

    It is my understanding that Daz Taylor and James Mac are going to be shooting springer next season. and how dare you imply I only shoot for the trophies and would give it up if I couldnt win. Admittedly I am still chasing that utopia of beating gay gunners with my boinger and it seems that I am nowhere near as good as I once thought I was. I am trying to overcome all of my physical restrictions and do myself proud anyway and will never give up trying. I said to myself when I have perfected boinging then I might give gay guns a go. Clearly I am still a loooooooooong way from perfecting boinging but at least us boinger boys know how to shoot competitively and still be good to one another. It is a much friendlier part of the HFT fraternity. And yes I do want to learn how to shoot competitively and be the best in my class so a second place trophy wont mean anything to me. But it will make it more appealing for others to take up shooting the better class and raise the profile sufficiently so at least it is not considered to be something that is tolerated by serious shooters like it is now.

    Dop, I dare you to do a couple of comps with a boinger and see how you feel about pegs that are wobbly because gay gunners use them to get up or bend them over cos of a bit of grass in the way, too short or bits digging in your chest preventing yo from shooting how the gun needs to shoot. I bet you would give it a miss very quickly rather than trying to learn a technique to overcome the problems or tune it out. Then when you do the weather will change how your gun shoots.

    Simmo is not capable of boinging anyway because it takes skill rather than just pointing it at the right place and pull the trigger. Sussex 50 was awesome to shoot but it really optimizes my points about the pegs having to be UKAHFT compliant to be able to shoot to the standard that will give us a fighting chance of shooting to the same standard as gay gunners can whilst resting on the ground and just making contact with the peg.

    Russ, I do agree that some just go for the craic and I adore the micky taking and camaraderie amongst boinger boys but I also admit the craic is so much better when you get to dazzle them with the glare off the medal as you flip the bird to your mates. I know guys, I haven't done it for a long time now.
    Last edited by Rex&Amy; 26-09-2018 at 07:41 AM.
    Does anyone know how to contact doughnuts Anonymous cos I just cant seem to give them up and may be a 0 addict

  5. #20
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    Guys surely the trophies per class is down to simple economics.

    I looked back at the last few National shoots:

    Nomads
    11 x springers
    3 x .22
    85 x open

    Furnace mill
    12 x springers
    3 x .22
    83 x open

    Emley moor
    9 x springers
    2 x .22
    100 x open

    Mad day 1
    11 x springers
    5 x .22
    100 x open

    Mad day 2
    10 x springers
    5 x .22
    87 x open

    See a trend forming...(I couldn't be arsed to keep counting).

    If each shooter pays £10 to shoot and a % of the fee goes to the club for trophies etc then there should be around 9 open trophies to every springer trophy if done on class volume.

    If you want a trophy either win your class and lord over your mates with bragging rights or enter the bigger pond in the open, with a few more pots to win and have a considerably smaller chance of getting one.

    As for combining springer and .22, again just look at the numbers in the class entries. I would suggest both classes have separate disadvantages that level the playing field some what. (and yes, I have tried both in competition, that's why I shoot in the open !)

    Rift.
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  6. #21
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    economics, shmecanomics...

    Sooo, if it's cost, and the springer and 0.22" chaps want more trophies then simply charge them more to enter those classes


    As for the the leading bunch who want ALL the glory to themselves either shoot FT where you can compete in the elite AA class and not have to associate with the hoi polloy or go and contribute on the Breeze...designed for prima donna's that one is


    Andy is right....my observation from the outside is its flucking hard to get to the top, a large dose of hard work and a modicum of natural ability - I have reached my peak and until last week was quite happy with that


    Several mentions of the cost of gear, I am living proof you cannot buy points....although I do have some lovely shiny things


    ...won nowt, probably never will
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  7. #22
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    This sport is about encoraging people into it, the problem is however, if you want to compete in the Open class, then you need to spend big money.

    Lets look at Cambridge.

    Winner Open Steyr HFT £2200 + Scope
    Runner up HFT-500 £1000+ + Scope
    3rd Steyr £2000 + Scope
    4th Steyr £2000 + Scope
    5th Steyr £2000 + Scope

    Springer TX200 £400 + Scope
    .22 Theoben £500 +scope

    I fully understand that those people who need to win a pot have to spend big money to do so (as I can't remember the last time I saw a so called top shot with a S400) but this sport should be for everyone and personal I would like to see a winner and a runner up trophy in all categories. It should not just be for those who can shoot and have the largest amount of disposable income.
    HFT Team England 2012 - 2013
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  8. #23
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    Oh well, I thought I might as well throw my two ha'pence worth in as well.....

    I shoot .22 because:

    A) I enjoy it and the challenges that this calibre brings
    B) As I prefer not to have to wear my reading glasses when I shoot, I am less likely to put the bigger pellets in the wrong way round
    C) The camaraderie that exists in this class (much the same as I sense there is in the recoil class)

    I don't win many trophies, but I enjoy myself hugely and always come away from a shoot having learnt something new - and these two things matter far more to me than any piece of tin or plastic to put on the bookshelf in my study

    Whilst it is nice on those rare occasions when I manage to get my act together and come in with a decent enough score to collect a cup, there is very little satisfaction in doing so if there were only a couple of other .22 shooters.

    However, at those shoots where the .22 guys are put in a class with the recoil shooters, then that makes for a far better competition, with more shooters competing against each other, and therefore a greater sense of pride/satisfaction/enjoyment if you manage to come out with the top score in this "combined class". Not always, but more often than not the scores from the recoil and .22 classes at a competition are very similar (obviously for different reasons), and this serves to make far more of more of a contest for all concerned than it would have been if say just three .22 shooters and 5 recoil shooters were in 2 different classes.

    Add in the savings to the host club in terms of the money that they would have had to fork out for trophies in both the .22 and recoil classes, and for me putting both these classes together (only on those occasions when there really aren't sufficient numbers to make one or both classes "viable" on their own) is a great thing to do and adds to the overall enjoyment of the day as far as I'm concerned. If there are sufficient competitors in each class, then run the 2 classes (which is also a good case for encouraging pre-booking by shooters)
    Last edited by fastnick; 26-09-2018 at 03:27 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #24
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    Another can of worms coming...

    Why isn't everyone graded like in FT? We have the information needed now... We only take and use scores from a UKAHFT officiated shoot. You only need 3 scores for an average to be placed into a grade, if you don't have 3 you shoot as ungraded in the top grade until you have a minimum of 3, all grades are rolling, every 6 months we are regraded before winter season and summer season. Grades sorted into percentages. You only need 1 person (UKAHFT grading official) to be prepared to take the emailed scores of any UKAHFT shoot in to implement into a grading chart so everyone can see what grade they are shooting in for that season. When you sign in you no what grade you are so you say and or put it on the card. If this is doable I am offering my services over the winter months to collect everyone's scores from a UKAHFT shoots (not club level, but comp level like Southern Hunters for example) ready to try for the summer months. All grades will be published.

    Doesn't matter what you shoot with or in (£2k or £400 setup, .22, recoiling, ladies, juniors), you will then only shoot against people of the same ability even if you are at a disadvantage shooting recoiling and .22 or new to the sport, its a lot a fairer system in my opinion the FT world have got right..

    People new to the sport that don't have money to spend or the time to practice as much as they would like but still enjoy the sport all the same will still have a chance at something.

    I have only been shooting 5 years now and I have shot and experienced FT, Recoiling, .22 and Open. They all have their own difficulties and not as easy as people first think. I advise everyone to try more than one discipline if they can.
    Meon Valley Airgun Club (MVAC)... on tour!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don626 View Post
    Another can of worms coming...

    Why isn't everyone graded like in FT?
    Nooooooo, no and no again.

    This is HFT.


    There are already three classes:

    1 - Those at the top who are serious competitors and will never understand why anyone would want to turn up without seriously competing, they would probably be the same in most other things in their life.

    2 - Those that say they are there merley for the craic but are probably kidding themselves, they really do want to compete and win something but are unwilling or unable to put the work and money in.

    3 - Those few that just turn up to shoot in good company.


    I thought I was a 3, but recently realised I am a 2 which one are you

    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lol Moore View Post
    Nooooooo, no and no again.

    This is HFT
    Unfortunately this seems to be most people's response, no-one from either the FT or HFT world will admit when the other has got something right there is still a divide between both sports

    I much prefer HFT over FT myself.

    Nothing will change as no-one likes change. Just thought a system like this might be more fairer to those of all abilities.
    Meon Valley Airgun Club (MVAC)... on tour!

  12. #27
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    As things stand Open you have approx 3/80 chance of winning something, Recoiling 1/10, .22 1/4, ladies 1/10, juniors 1/3. (These are only approx amounts buts as you can see in Open the odds are against the average shooter).

    With grading, you would only need 3 grades and a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in each.

    A grade 85-100%
    B grade 75-84.9%
    C grade lowest-74.9%

    This makes shooting PCP or recoiling irrelevant. I suspect B grade would be for average shooters and C for Newbies.
    Meon Valley Airgun Club (MVAC)... on tour!

  13. #28
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    Don

    I wasn't trying to highlight any sort of divide, it's just that for me I think the more rules you have the less enjoyable something is, I have rules all week dont need more on a Sunday

    I think FTers love rules because they are all Matalan suited middle managers arn't they...really

    I sometimes do wonder why some amongst us are obsesed with setting courses to UKAHFT rules - I absoluely understand if its a series but you see it at single stand alone shoots too...just put em out and lets try to knock em over......there you go, to keep with the theme of cans of worms, have another one on me
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  14. #29
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    Spot on Don

    Great posts Don ....

    In reply to Lol I'm none of those 3 options ....but a mixture of 2 and 3 .


    My original post was more about getting the classes right .... PCP = open ... Spring/Gas Ram=Recoiling , both irrespective of calibre .

    While on my soapbox (before any smug f%%%wit says , yes it is big and very sturdy), i understand the Juniors having a separate class but going on some previous posts , do we need the ladies class or the veterans class , were a good deal of the people in those classes are already beating a lot of people in the open we all shoot the same course is it any easier or harder for a lady or a veteran ? .

    what about a class for the disabled ?

    and before people push the sour grapes or costs per people shooting those classes down my neck , i do understand the fiscal side of it and i know how much time and effort some people put into this sport , whether it be competition or course setting and putting a comp on .

    some folk shoot the category they shoot in for the love of shooting in it , and i also understand that trophies cost money , so if there are not enough people in that class its tough , but to lump classes together to make up the numbers ....... would it be the same if not enough veterans and juniors entered a series , would they be lumped together ? , If there are enough numbers to hold a recoil class but only 1 or 2 .22 shooters and that class can't be put on then surely It's their choice?

    I care not about trophies as much as the other reasons i shoot but if i shoot well enough to win one its a nice bonus .


    Peace !
    HW100 Hunting tool, HW97 Reaper Titanium Piston (The reaper of pcp souls) Sponsored by Greggs
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRuss View Post
    Great posts Don ....

    In reply to Lol I'm none of those 3 options ....but a mixture of 2 and 3 .


    My original post was more about getting the classes right .... PCP = open ... Spring/Gas Ram=Recoiling , both irrespective of calibre .

    While on my soapbox (before any smug f%%%wit says , yes it is big and very sturdy), i understand the Juniors having a separate class but going on some previous posts , do we need the ladies class or the veterans class , were a good deal of the people in those classes are already beating a lot of people in the open we all shoot the same course is it any easier or harder for a lady or a veteran ? .

    what about a class for the disabled ?

    and before people push the sour grapes or costs per people shooting those classes down my neck , i do understand the fiscal side of it and i know how much time and effort some people put into this sport , whether it be competition or course setting and putting a comp on .

    some folk shoot the category they shoot in for the love of shooting in it , and i also understand that trophies cost money , so if there are not enough people in that class its tough , but to lump classes together to make up the numbers ....... would it be the same if not enough veterans and juniors entered a series , would they be lumped together ? , If there are enough numbers to hold a recoil class but only 1 or 2 .22 shooters and that class can't be put on then surely It's their choice?

    I care not about trophies as much as the other reasons i shoot but if i shoot well enough to win one its a nice bonus .


    Peace !
    Firstly Rex I was shooting boingers before you had your nipples pierced I choose not to now because I like to knock targets down. You obviously prefer chipping paint but hey yellow is a great colour.

    Equal classes whats equal in recoiling if you want to shoot recoiling shoot STOCK out of the box untouched, not this tune and that tune, how the fluck is that equal, even worse than Open you say the top boys buy top kit in open, well all they get is a reliable gun so when they point and pull they know what course their pellet will venture on. In recoiling you try by spending money and time to get a gun to shoot like a PCP what an absolute load of just buy a PCP a 400 will do cheap as chips and in the right hands capable of beating any Steyr Annie or whatever. Trouble is the top boys have served an apprenticship over many years in a hobby they are passionate about so they have spent their cash on their hobby bought stuff not necessarily better but what they like. Its not the gun its the man who knows how to use his scope and read the wind who wins. I personally would advocate like .20 PCP that tuned recoiling shoot in the Open class with only Stock factory guns shooting in recoiling. Oh thats that class gone then. Would defo keep the .22 class as that is proper hard. Its shooting so it shouldn't be gender or age specific drop all those classes lets all go Open with only one prize for the top score on the day. Plus .22 PCP and recoiling. Rex toodle off and buy a .22.

    Monkey.
    Buxted HFT Garage Guns are Us. Home of Crowzilla Doppers doughnut corner and SiHFT winners 2007 2008 2009 2010 2017 2018 2019.

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