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Thread: Highs and lows of collecting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Highs and lows of collecting

    You meet some strange people when collecting old air guns. These are some of my experiences. You’ll notice they are all the same ty

    Having arranged to go look at a BSA model D air rifle. That looked quite nice in the pictures. I arrived at a pretty little cottage and was invited in to view the gun, it was a complete Junior version in good order, stock a little loose but everything else there and in fine condition. I chatted to the owner and agreed a price. He offered to demonstrate the gun. No don’t worry about that I’m sure its fine I said (Edbear always told me don’t fire an old gun till you’ve had it apart to check the state of the internals). The vendor insisted on showing me and cocked the gun, I shuddered with the expectation he was about to dry fire the poor thing. But no he inserted a pellet strolled outside, raised the gun and proceeded to take a a pot shot at one of his chickens roaming the garden, with the resultant soil kicking up behind the bird. You can’t hit a thing with these old guns he remarked to my gobsmacked face. I couldn’t get away quick enough. Having got the gun home and checked it over it is both accurate and quite reasonably powerful as you would expect from one of these guns.

    That was my final private purchase and after this I started to look at online provincial auctions.

    Having looked online and found a No.3 calibre BSA model D with factory peep sight, I decided that I needed this in my life. I realised attending the sale was to be impossible so proceeded to leave a bid and hope for the best, whilst looking at the other airguns in the sale I came across a model D with a enfield site fitted into the stock, that apparently had been a spectators prize at Bisley in 1911. It seemed crazy not to bid as I was bound to win the .25 calibre and this would be greta to go with it, well that’s what I convinced myself. I returned from work on the evening following the auction and logged on to mixed fortunes. The model D had gone for 10 times the amount I’d allowed, but the spectator prize was mine. Only at this point did the matter of collection occur to me. I didn’t want to drive to southern Devon to pick the thing up so thought I’d avail myself of the offer to have the item sent, a few days later a quote arrived. It was more expensive than the gun! I could feel the colour draining from my face as I realised that my only choice was to drive down and collect it on an afternoon off work. This was turning into a costly mistake, and one of my first lessons.

    Having made the journey I paid and received my gun, a quick look over showed a model D No. 27867 in good order, all the screws looked perfect. I returned home and snuck my newest acquisition into the house. What with work and the general mish mash of modern life, I didn’t get to look at 27867 until I took it to bell target the following Thursday. I did my usual of presenting a gun bag to Edbear for him to guess what rusty boat anchor I’d bought this time, he guessed straight away that it was a BSA prewar underlever. But his face lit up as he unwrapped the gun, this is a good one he said, high praise indeed I thought. I said yes look at the screw heads, he said never mind that feel the linkages, all tight, whoever had this looked after it. For once we didn’t strip it but took it to the target and had a go, Ed was shooting 5 after 5 with it, using the peep sight. I could get consistent 4’s but the thing that amazed me was how good the trigger felt, similar to a modern rifle. Ed said keep that one it’s been looked after and someone has had a tinker to get that so sweet.

    So 27867 is a delight to shoot, and I am so happy to be its current custodian.



    Having got the auction bug, I noticed a sad looking rifle in a sale, having checked where it was I thought I could pop over from the office and pick it up the Friday following the sale. I looked at the single out of focus picture that showed the left hand side and barely any description to go with it, it was definitely a parts gun I thought, a few days later I was looking and thinking, you know this is possibly saveable. I placed a bid and was soon notified that I’d been outbid. I then received a message that the bid had been withdrawn and I was now winning. I returned the evening after the auction to find I had won. But the weather was putting pay to my efforts to collect the rifle and so I phoned, paid and found out that they were going to post the gun to me, even better I thought.

    A large parcel arrived that I unpacked to find BSA No. 3104. A total wreck of a gun. How sad this is, I can remember when I bought my first air rifle, the excitement and anticipation of waiting for your purchase to arrive, this must have been someones pride and joy when first bought, and a hundred years later it is scrap.

    It would be quicker to list what usable parts remained on 3104.

    The loading tap
    Trigger
    A trigger guard screw
    The tap retaining plate
    The front sight although damaged
    Piston and spring


    The damage

    Butt plate and screws missing
    Stock split through trigger guard on right hand side and nailed together, pellet marks in right hand side where it had been used as a target.
    Trigger guard tang broken
    Trigger block drilled / cut to remove trigger axis screw
    Rear sight homemade
    Barrel and air cylinder cut / gouged bludgeoned in an effort to separate them
    Underlever to cocking link welded together
    Bolt bodged through the underlever where the axis screw should be


    I considered what to do, it wasn’t worth the money spent. I looked at the parts and thought I can get an early gun working with that tap. I still should have complained, but time past, and buyer beware I suppose. A second harsh lesson learned.

    I started to strip 3104, the piston had a large bolt bodged into it with a piece of rubber to make a seal. It stunk as I heated it up to get the bolt out. The tap was held in with a small screw that once removed I realised was the other trigger guard screw, a small bonus. The rear sight was heated to remove the home made sight blade, having pulled that out I bushed off the base with a wire brush to reveal that it was the original base but the vertical bits had been snapped off. Maybe in the future this will be salvageable?

    What a sad end to this gun.

    My final / latest attempt at buying at auction. Having looked online I found a lot that said Lincoln Jeffries air rifle A/F with gun bag also A/F. No pictures, and no bidders as yet. Not having a clue, I searched to find what A/F meant All Faults I found as an answer. I clicked on a link to the auction house to try and attempt to find where the auctioneers was, having learnt a lesson from the purchase of 27867. It was only 30 miles from a place I was due to visit with work a few days after the auction date and with no snow predicted for August then chances are I could get there. I looked at the item on the auctioneers site, it had pictures and showed an early rifle, with good engraving missing the cocking link but with an early sight protector. There was also a junior in the sale in much better condition.
    I placed a bid on the broken gun, not having much money that month and them not accepting credit cards I had to put a low bid in and hope for the best. I kept an eye on the listing on the auction site as the day neared the pictures appeared on the online site that previously hadn’t showed them, so everyone now could see what I had seen. I carefully studied the good quality pictures, to determine what was present and what missing, cocking link missing, underlever catch block gone and strangely it looked as if the underlever catch was missing from the bayonet style lever or at least the pin wasn’t present. Given that I couldn't attend the viewing this again was a stab in the dark, as although the gun looked Ok’ish I was concerned after the experience of buying 3104. But if I did win 3104 could help by donating its cocking link, always a silver lining eh? The sight protector itself must be worth what I’ve bid I thought and satisfied myself that even if this was in poor condition the gun was worth the money I was committing to.

    I returned home that evening to find I had won the auction at the top of my budget. Following my visit to the work location, I trekked across to the auction house, why is it always the last bit that takes the most time driving up and down the same road looking for this little place that was tucked away. I entered the premises and proceeded to pay for my latest purchase, having completed the formalities I was instructed upstairs to collect my lot. A helpful lady directed me to a sofa where a gun slip lay with the butt of a rifle sticking out and the junior next to it, the junior looked good. I picked up the slip and carefully withdrew the gun, sight protector still present. Phew. The gun was pretty much complete but a bit rusty especially on the butt plate, I attempted to turn the tap completely solid, putting the gun back in the slip and thanking the staff I left for home.

    Getting home to find everyone out I looked at the newest acquisition. Number 711, a rather rusty butt plate suggests this has sat on a damp cold floor for some time maybe in a garage or cellar. A small split in the pistol grip probably due to a wood screw being used in the tang of the guard. All the other screws look original even the keeper screw on the breech plug plate, the breech plug screw has an additional hole in, to take up the slack from wear, so it’s seen some use.

    The gun is complete except for the cocking link, cocking link to underlever screw, underlever latch pin, and latch block. In a chat to Edbear he suggested that removing the link was probably a way of stopping children from using it at some point in its history. Strippng it down showed a piston in good condition, although the seal is stuck in the cylinder, the single spring is broken at the end and will need refinishing or replacing at some point. A bit of work has meant that the link from 3104 is now fitted, with a screw from Knibbs. This has allowed me to cock the gun and the trigger holds well.

    I think with a little more work 711 will be returned to working condition.

    Highs, lows and lessons learnt but great fun, for all these someone cherished them at some point in their lives, and with 711 it is a pleasure to help it back into a serviceable condition, a underlever catch block to fit, piston seal to make or purchase, spring to redo and it’ll be back running again.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Nice enjoyable read. Thanks for that.

  3. #3
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Enjoyed reading that,thankyou

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Agreed,an interesting read,coincidentally having successfully bid online for a couple of guns, I then appealed on this forum for someone in the vicinity of the auction house to collect,pack and ship them to me.

    On both occasions a kind individual carefully packed and posted them, asking for nothing more than expenses in return.

    Hats off to both gents concerned

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Great read. Credit to you for not being put off by a bit of work being needed.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    I have bought quite a few guns at auction. And I would say only two were "bad" experiences. The first was my very first auction. I saw this nice looking Original Mod 45 in .177. Not many bidders and with only one picture of the area around the rear of the action, so I thought I would give it a shot. I won it for around £80 so with auction fees I had paid around £110 for what I thought would be a great rifle. So I go to collect and quickly found that it was missing all sights and had what looked like a okish attempt at threading the end of the barrel for a silencer. Now with this being my first auction experience I was a bit naive and did not question it. Whilst the gun was in perfect condition (apart from the aforementioned problems) I was still a bit miffed since there was nothing mentioning this in the item description. But oh well. I sold the gun to my brother a few weeks later for a £10 loss....

    My second would was when I say a BSA Standard .22. While the condition was ok the main thing I wanted was the BSA No 22 rear sight it had. So I threw a bid and I won. Got it shipped to my address. The rear sight was there and thats all I really wanted. I then found that the serial number had been ground off! Again no mention of this in the description or images.

    Apart from that, all my auction experiences have been ok. I mainly buy private now though. Auction fees can be expensive!

    My one regret is that in a Wallis and Wallis auction back in February there was an old BSA/Lincoln Jeffries, Serial number 300. Oh how I wanted that gun. I placed my bid long in advance. Alas on the day of the auction I was violently ill, could not move. And in the end the rifle went for £30 more than I bid, I would of been more than happy to have kept on bidding live if I was well. I was a bit upset but oh well, some things are not meant to be.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    The images provided by auction houses in their online catalogues vary wildly, as does the level of commission charged.

    Some provide useful close ups, others single out of focus pictures with the photographer's toes included.

    Either way buying sight unseen will always be a punt.

  8. #8
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Yes l can relate to the highs and lows of the auction houses. l think most of us have had them at some stage, l have asked some auctions for a condition report, is it in working order ect and have been told we don't give out reports. they are the ones l try to avoid.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    The statement A.F. was included in the description of my latest auction purchase,no detail.

    Until I get to pick it up the true extent of the problems will remain a mystery.

    Although the auction house is a R.F.D. I can understand their reticence.

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