Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48

Thread: Is professional tuning worth it?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Near Wimbledon, SW London, or Lusaka, Zambia
    Posts
    26,320
    very true Boz
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hollesley, near Woodbridge
    Posts
    2,796
    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    Brilliant post by Richard above.

    "Is pro tuning worth it?"

    What does " Worth it" mean?

    If practically a rifle's job is to hit what you aim at ... then a pro tune won't allow you to hit more things than a drop in kit or home tune.

    Human beings ... weird things. They don't just want or need something to be practical. They need to know that it's a quality thing ... a nice thing ... a better than average thing ... it makes them feel good about themselves.

    A basic car gets you from A to B. An expensive car still only gets you from A to B, and probably no quicker, but there may be luxuries that make the journey a tad more pleasant. A 3 quid watch tells the time. A £10k watch still only tells the time, but some people feel good having a quality watch on their wrist.

    Some people just like to know that they own an air rifle that is as good as it can be.

    Also ... conversation topic. Let's be honest ... most people on here and at clubs etc can't shoot for sh!t. They aren't horrendous ... but they aren't great either. Most people don't go to clubs to see if their mega tune rifle is 5% more accurate or if they get three extra targets on the courses that year. Most go to get out of the house and meet mates and drink tea and talk absolute b0ll0x about air rifles. It's therapy. Some people pay therapists, some people hug a tree, some kick a ball around ... and some go and talk to their mates in a wood or an indoor club and blast a few targets. The real fun, for most, isn't actually pulling the trigger and hitting things ... it's the talking b0ll0x. So having a mega pro tuned rifle and handing it to your mates and saying ... " Just had that tuned by Springporn Tuning ... it cocks and shoots superb with hardly a nudge " ... It's therapy.

    Don't tell anyone ... but FT and HFT shooters don't really have to be wandering around the woods with loads of mega kit either. The same blokes were winning with the same scores over 10 years ago with kit that cost half the price or less. It's that therapy thing again. Most of the blokes carrying £3k worth of gear around would hit just as many targets with 500 quids worth ... but now and then ... they drop a long target ... and a little drop of wee indicates that every penny of that £3k was worth it ( to them ) ... and that's all that counts.
    This is all very true, I sold the Spartan I'd had for nine years because I'd enjoyed owning and shooting it and felt time for someone else to enjoy it
    Custom BSA S10 .22 PAX Phoenix Mk 2 .22 Custom Titan Manitou .22 (JB BP) HW77 .22 FWB Sport Mk1 .22 Sharp Ace .22 Crossman 600 .22 Berretta 92 .20 Desert Eagle .177

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    gateshead
    Posts
    24,040
    id say yes

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Ross
    Posts
    1,158
    Is it worth it? Yes.

    What does it mean?

    I have three home "tuned" rifles. Two BSAs which are from the 1980s. Easy to work on and not hard to get shooting nicer. And a HW77 which all I did was detwang it. Again, relatively easy but nothing ground breaking. Cost was low and not too long to do - although the BSA Mercury was a full rebuild. The comments I have received from other people are very complimentary. An engineer at Bisley was most impressed with my 77. Doing it yourself gives you a connection with the rifle you don't get if someone else does it.

    In contrast my other guns have all had the SFS treatment and the difference is notable. Triggers are crisper, the actions even smoother and they are a genuine pleasure to shoot.

    That for me is the most important thing: A Pleasure to Shoot.

    Ok I had to wait a while for them to be done but that's the rub isn't it. Some things are worth waiting for.

    If you spend even more you can go crazy with all sorts of alterations, but I think the saying about "diminishing returns" runs true. There is a point when some things cannot be improved anymore. So it depends on what you are starting with - an 80s HW77 or a BSA Lightning?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Kirkintilloch
    Posts
    1,695
    Quote Originally Posted by u.k.neil View Post
    Visit the next Springer Bash and you will have the opportunity to shoot many highly tuned springers.


    Neil
    Quote Originally Posted by Daveo View Post
    I intend to, the next one clashes with family commitments or I would have made the journey.
    Good advice thanks
    Hi Dave, the first Boinger Bash of 2019 should take place around the beginning of April so keep your eye on the next Boinger Bash thread which will commence sometime after the Halloween one next week and the date will be confirmed.
    As Neil says it's well worth a visit and you'll get the opportunity to shoot other folks pride and joy and get to know a bit about the history of them as well.
    A visit there is highly recommended.

    Atb,
    Graeme

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North Norfolk.
    Posts
    1,023
    I've just bought a brand new HW99s Imp from SFS and I an honestly say that It Is the best springer that I have ever shot. I have been shooting PCP's for over 20 years and this tuned rifle has really got my enthusiasm back for shooting springers,

    John
    Last edited by luckymjr; 18-10-2018 at 09:53 PM.
    God created man and god created woman
    Sam colt made them equal

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East Sussex, Nr Rye
    Posts
    17,108
    I'll add my two cents, though I can't say I've had that many tuned rifles, but I have shot a good few rifles. Presently have a HW95 V-Match factory tuned and a HW77 Short Stroke Venom.

    In the early days circa 1980's when budget Jap scopes arrived on these shores in numbers the accuracy beyond farmyard ranges was less than perfect. Match 6m and 10 rifles were fantastic, but nothing with 12ft/lbs.
    So people looked at what could shoot straight and the HW35 was it! Much must be that trigger.
    The early tuners found that the HW35 all shot differently and tuning was hit and miss. FWB Sorts even more tricky. Very frustrating at times and many a colourful word spoken I should think. You could say the early tuners cut their teeth trying to work out how to better what the factory did. A debur and polish was a start. Transfer ports experiments too with differing results. It seemed no two guns were the same when tuning. The factory rifles weren't built that well! Pellets weren't that great. Chronos results said it all.
    The HW77 arrived and that was pretty good out of the box. New machinery must have helped. Tuning was easier and just that little bit smoother.

    Those early tuners had many a frustration I suspect. But lessons were learnt. Not every factory rifle started true. Plenty top tuners were machining parts to be straight. Then the lazaglide. A lot of knowledge was gained and far greater understanding of what was happening and what effect was got from different stages and parts. Long story short its the reason AA can make the TX.

    Much now is what start stock rifle is chosen. A little luck of out of the box. Drop in tuning kits upgrade parts that should compliment the actions. For the outlay a small but significant improvement should be seen. Not a lot.
    A full tuning factory shop should ensure that a rifle leaves about as good as it can get. Its best potential found. Each tuner has their angle of how to get there. Each model of rifle reacts differently to a tune. Lastly there are a couple of different "feels" like short or long stroke. The cost in time to do all the work will add up and the result smooth but its all still a spring compressor contraption.

    Tune or no tune, the rifle is not going to shoot itself. So much is in the marksman, fit, and familiarisation of it all. Tuning a spring gun does not turn the rifle into a PCP. Nor does it make one model of rifle behave exactly like another model; the how to get the best out of the model is about the owner working out how.
    Much to get any springer to hit the centre is working out what the rifle likes. Heavy, and heavily tuned, should make that easier, the best behaved rifle are heavy and smooth.

    Is it all worth it?
    Its an extension of the hobby. I think, as anyone progress from factory to home tuned and beyond, new knowledge is found. Jumping straight to a tuned springer misses some important lessons. Many a PCP or rimfire shots struggle with spring guns because they don't appreciate whats going on with a spring 12ft/lbs system.
    As no two springers are the same then there is a hobby in that, and how different models react to tuning, and the pure challenge of how good a rifle can be made to shoot.

    The numbers don't really add up due to the man hours put into tinkering. High level tinkering but the results are small increments of improvements. If the result is pellet on pellet at 25m then the rest is for the fun of it all. Its a hobby so what has the money got to do with it?
    When buying an established tuners custom tune then the value is in the tune and most importantly the relationship with the tuner. The value is buying their best effort, and their reputation's best effort.
    If their best effort isn't hugely different from your best effort then so what? You still have bought their best effort which is recognisable if they are a known name.
    Sadly, tune be it drop in or a named high profile tuner rarely retains much value once put on the second hand market. Your custom tuned rarely hold value for others much. Certainly unlikely to get your money back. So tuning investment is for you and no one else.

    Lastly, cost of living is high enough. If you have the spare disposable income I can think of loads of ways to blow what the cost of tuning costs. The payback on having a really well tuned and working great rifle, the pure confidence of it all, is well worth the outlay if you like that kind of thing. All depends how "into it all" you are.
    Much the same can be said about a well tinkered and working PCP. Heck, if you are a shooter a well sorted combo, whatever the calibre or system, is fantastic. What final result is, and always will be, the bod behind the trigger.
    Last edited by Muskett; 18-10-2018 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    1,149
    Thank you everyone for some interesting reading and very valid points
    I'm taking away from this that if I was unable to mess with guns myself having someone else do it would probably be a good choice.
    A professional could probably get more out of my gun than I can, but what if it's not to my liking?
    And what would I actually gain?
    As part of the pleasure for me in owning a gun is fiddling about with them I think I'll just carry on as I have been.
    I intend to attend a boinger bash to find out how crap my own guns actually are in the future.
    Cheers chaps
    Good deals with:
    Dunn220, Leon, Bullcelt, stink£r, u.k.neil, supersharpshoot, william and airgun god, GEORGEY, telgun, Simon P and stubbs4612, Wellhouse0, harpo

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    pembury
    Posts
    739
    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    I'll add my two cents, though I can't say I've had that many tuned rifles, but I have shot a good few rifles. Presently have a HW95 V-Match factory tuned and a HW77 Short Stroke Venom.

    In the early days circa 1980's when budget Jap scopes arrived on these shores in numbers the accuracy beyond farmyard ranges was less than perfect. Match 6m and 10 rifles were fantastic, but nothing with 12ft/lbs.
    So people looked at what could shoot straight and the HW35 was it! Much must be that trigger.
    The early tuners found that the HW35 all shot differently and tuning was hit and miss. FWB Sorts even more tricky. Very frustrating at times and many a colourful word spoken I should think. You could say the early tuners cut their teeth trying to work out how to better what the factory did. A debur and polish was a start. Transfer ports experiments too with differing results. It seemed no two guns were the same when tuning. The factory rifles weren't built that well! Pellets weren't that great. Chronos results said it all.
    The HW77 arrived and that was pretty good out of the box. New machinery must have helped. Tuning was easier and just that little bit smoother.

    Those early tuners had many a frustration I suspect. But lessons were learnt. Not every factory rifle started true. Plenty top tuners were machining parts to be straight. Then the lazaglide. A lot of knowledge was gained and far greater understanding of what was happening and what effect was got from different stages and parts. Long story short its the reason AA can make the TX.

    Much now is what start stock rifle is chosen. A little luck of out of the box. Drop in tuning kits upgrade parts that should compliment the actions. For the outlay a small but significant improvement should be seen. Not a lot.
    A full tuning factory shop should ensure that a rifle leaves about as good as it can get. Its best potential found. Each tuner has their angle of how to get there. Each model of rifle reacts differently to a tune. Lastly there are a couple of different "feels" like short or long stroke. The cost in time to do all the work will add up and the result smooth but its all still a spring compressor contraption.

    Tune or no tune, the rifle is not going to shoot itself. So much is in the marksman, fit, and familiarisation of it all. Tuning a spring gun does not turn the rifle into a PCP. Nor does it make one model of rifle behave exactly like another model; the how to get the best out of the model is about the owner working out how.
    Much to get any springer to hit the centre is working out what the rifle likes. Heavy, and heavily tuned, should make that easier, the best behaved rifle are heavy and smooth.

    Is it all worth it?
    Its an extension of the hobby. I think, as anyone progress from factory to home tuned and beyond, new knowledge is found. Jumping straight to a tuned springer misses some important lessons. Many a PCP or rimfire shots struggle with spring guns because they don't appreciate whats going on with a spring 12ft/lbs system.
    As no two springers are the same then there is a hobby in that, and how different models react to tuning, and the pure challenge of how good a rifle can be made to shoot.

    The numbers don't really add up due to the man hours put into tinkering. High level tinkering but the results are small increments of improvements. If the result is pellet on pellet at 25m then the rest is for the fun of it all. Its a hobby so what has the money got to do with it?
    When buying an established tuners custom tune then the value is in the tune and most importantly the relationship with the tuner. The value is buying their best effort, and their reputation's best effort.
    If their best effort isn't hugely different from your best effort then so what? You still have bought their best effort which is recognisable if they are a known name.
    Sadly, tune be it drop in or a named high profile tuner rarely retains much value once put on the second hand market. Your custom tuned rarely hold value for others much. Certainly unlikely to get your money back. So tuning investment is for you and no one else.

    Lastly, cost of living is high enough. If you have the spare disposable income I can think of loads of ways to blow what the cost of tuning costs. The payback on having a really well tuned and working great rifle, the pure confidence of it all, is well worth the outlay if you like that kind of thing. All depends how "into it all" you are.
    Much the same can be said about a well tinkered and working PCP. Heck, if you are a shooter a well sorted combo, whatever the calibre or system, is fantastic. What final result is, and always will be, the bod behind the trigger.
    A great read...well written piece.
    The Key point is the last one.....
    ''What final result is, and always will be, the bod behind the trigger''
    Oh so true...……
    Cheers Steve

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    nottingham
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    Brilliant post by Richard above.

    "Is pro tuning worth it?"

    What does " Worth it" mean?

    If practically a rifle's job is to hit what you aim at ... then a pro tune won't allow you to hit more things than a drop in kit or home tune.

    Human beings ... weird things. They don't just want or need something to be practical. They need to know that it's a quality thing ... a nice thing ... a better than average thing ... it makes them feel good about themselves.

    A basic car gets you from A to B. An expensive car still only gets you from A to B, and probably no quicker, but there may be luxuries that make the journey a tad more pleasant. A 3 quid watch tells the time. A £10k watch still only tells the time, but some people feel good having a quality watch on their wrist.

    Some people just like to know that they own an air rifle that is as good as it can be.

    Also ... conversation topic. Let's be honest ... most people on here and at clubs etc can't shoot for sh!t. They aren't horrendous ... but they aren't great either. Most people don't go to clubs to see if their mega tune rifle is 5% more accurate or if they get three extra targets on the courses that year. Most go to get out of the house and meet mates and drink tea and talk absolute b0ll0x about air rifles. It's therapy. Some people pay therapists, some people hug a tree, some kick a ball around ... and some go and talk to their mates in a wood or an indoor club and blast a few targets. The real fun, for most, isn't actually pulling the trigger and hitting things ... it's the talking b0ll0x. So having a mega pro tuned rifle and handing it to your mates and saying ... " Just had that tuned by Springporn Tuning ... it cocks and shoots superb with hardly a nudge " ... It's therapy.

    Don't tell anyone ... but FT and HFT shooters don't really have to be wandering around the woods with loads of mega kit either. The same blokes were winning with the same scores over 10 years ago with kit that cost half the price or less. It's that therapy thing again. Most of the blokes carrying £3k worth of gear around would hit just as many targets with 500 quids worth ... but now and then ... they drop a long target ... and a little drop of wee indicates that every penny of that £3k was worth it ( to them ) ... and that's all that counts.
    nailed it

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bruton
    Posts
    6,591
    Agree with a lot of commenters here, too many to mention.

    To summarise.

    If you have the knowledge (now available for free on the internet), skills, insight, and tools, you can tune something yourself up to, and sometimes beyond, what you can buy from a professional. So do it.

    If you lack any of those four things, paying someone else to do it who does have them may be a good idea.

    Whether that is value for money or what you want is entirely up to you, and an emotional decision as well as a practical one.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    1,498
    Hello to All,

    For me, yes and no, and also in-between

    It would depend on how you want the finished rifle to shoot like, and also what facilities & skills were available to the user.

    For the TX for example, left in 25 mm standard trim, or 25 mm with a reduced stroke, then a good quality drop-in kit or a Mk2 piston + kit, would get you a good way to a nice shooting rifle, for not a great deal of monies.

    For such an outcome, the answer would be possibly be a no, though again many tuners go that little bit extra, so it might be a yes.

    However, take my Tony Leach 22mm TX conversion for example - yes, it was very much worth it as the rifle is now sublime to shoot - so the answer would be definite yes.

    Have fun & a good weekend

    Best regards

    Russ

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hollesley, near Woodbridge
    Posts
    2,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Agree with a lot of commenters here, too many to mention.

    To summarise.

    If you have the knowledge (now available for free on the internet), skills, insight, and tools, you can tune something yourself up to, and sometimes beyond, what you can buy from a professional. So do it.

    If you lack any of those four things, paying someone else to do it who does have them may be a good idea.

    Whether that is value for money or what you want is entirely up to you, and an emotional decision as well as a practical one.
    Spot on, personally I would pay someone who has more knowledge than myself. I can do a basic strip, deburr, polish, re-lube and re-assemble. It would be smoother, probably a bit more consistant but unlikely to be a patch on what someone can do with the right knowledge
    Custom BSA S10 .22 PAX Phoenix Mk 2 .22 Custom Titan Manitou .22 (JB BP) HW77 .22 FWB Sport Mk1 .22 Sharp Ace .22 Crossman 600 .22 Berretta 92 .20 Desert Eagle .177

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dudley
    Posts
    9,206

    Professional Tune

    A friend of mine has a venom 77. Over 10 shots it's variation is only 1.8 fps. So worth it? But like mentioned above it's the person pulling the trigger that needs to play their part. Mach 1.5

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hollesley, near Woodbridge
    Posts
    2,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach 1.5 View Post
    A friend of mine has a venom 77. Over 10 shots it's variation is only 1.8 fps. So worth it? But like mentioned above it's the person pulling the trigger that needs to play their part. Mach 1.5
    That is consistant !
    Custom BSA S10 .22 PAX Phoenix Mk 2 .22 Custom Titan Manitou .22 (JB BP) HW77 .22 FWB Sport Mk1 .22 Sharp Ace .22 Crossman 600 .22 Berretta 92 .20 Desert Eagle .177

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •