Polishing inside of cylinder?

[jirushi]

Hi,
What are the views on polishing the inside of a break barrel airgun cylinder? I've read that this can have negative effects, but I'm not sure.

I'd like to learn about springer tuning, and I thought I'd start off with my BSA Meteor Mk5. Don't laugh I enjoy the Meteor, and I'd like to make it as smooth as possible.
It's got a new spring from Protek Supplies, and I will fit a new buffer washer. I've adjusted the trigger so that a gentle squeeze is enough to fire the gun.
I was thinking about polishing the sears and every other surface that would benefit from polishing. Cylinder? The contact points of the piston?

Then I could try fitting a delrin spring guide, and perhaps a top hat too (btw I tried this with a Titan spring, and Titan spring guide/top hat - not a succes; the spring was way too stiff and long for the Meteor).

I know that Meteors are not made to be top class shooters, but as a plinking gun it's great fun. I'm not looking for an increase in power, just an increase in smoothness.

Cheers

[PhatMan]

Louis,

For me, the aim is to remove any burrs from the inside of the cylinder, and to leave a lightly cross-hatched finish.

I use green 3M Scotchbrite to finish the insides of my cylinders - cut a slot in a dowel, and insert a 2" x 4" strip of Scotchbrite, wind up, put in cylinder and rotate with electric drill.

After cleaning, I burnish a mix (75/25) of sub-micron graphite/0.5u tungsten disulphide into the cylinder surface using a chamois leather mop.

The bores of internal combustion engines are cross hatched, and the premium barrel makers (Krieger, Obermeyer etc.) finish-lap their barrels to ca. 320 'grit', so mirror-polish does not seem the way to go

Have fun & a good Sunday

Best regards

Russ

[JLB]

Personally I would leave well alone, many a gun has been ruined by well meaning "Tuners" polishing/honing cylinders. If it was making good power, leave it alone & concentrate on a set of good fitting guides, de-burr of sharp edges & correct lube.

John

[pigeondave]

Hi, Im new to this too.
i got a new spring and spring guide from Tinbum Tuning.

The difference is great, the rifle (HW35) no longer has that twang and wobble/vibration. It now just has a solid, precise thump. I was like you, thinking of polishing the inside of the piston cylinder but decided against it. I did polish the piston and debur the cocking guide.

A well fitted spring guide seems to be night and day.

New breech seal worked well too.

As others have said try to fiddle as little as possible to get a consistent rifle.

[lightning22]

Hi,
What are the views on polishing the inside of a break barrel airgun cylinder? I've read that this can have negative effects, but I'm not sure.

I'd like to learn about springer tuning, and I thought I'd start off with my BSA Meteor Mk5. Don't laugh I enjoy the Meteor, and I'd like to make it as smooth as possible.
It's got a new spring from Protek Supplies, and I will fit a new buffer washer. I've adjusted the trigger so that a gentle squeeze is enough to fire the gun.
I was thinking about polishing the sears and every other surface that would benefit from polishing. Cylinder? The contact points of the piston?

Then I could try fitting a delrin spring guide, and perhaps a top hat too (btw I tried this with a Titan spring, and Titan spring guide/top hat - not a succes; the spring was way too stiff and long for the Meteor).

I know that Meteors are not made to be top class shooters, but as a plinking gun it's great fun. I'm not looking for an increase in power, just an increase in smoothness.

Cheers

One of the biggest single improvements I made to one of my old Meteors was adding some of Jim Maccari's stick on buttons to the piston skirt. From memory that one had a cut down Titan spring and home made guide and top hat, all polished up. I used it with some success (ie I hit some) in recoiling HFT for a laugh. It now lives with Kingplinker's lad.

[original45]

If you want to have a go why not. Those who do nothing learn "0"!!

Simular to the supersport in ways so I will try and to explain what I do on mine.
Deburr all slots in main cylinder and piston.
It's safe practice to cut cardboard from cereal to slip in cylinder opposite slot you will work on.
If you use jewellers files or simular saves damage if you slip ,go to far and catch inner cylinder wall.

I stuff rag or simular in cylinder compression area saves too much debri going in less to clean out when prior to polishing .

You can beburr with tiny files, stones of suitable size or get grades of wet n dry glued on ice lolly sticks .

Next I would get a wooden Dowell,wrapped In soft cotton neatly smoothly.I fix in end with drawing pin ,tape on back edge to hold cotton neatly.

You want to wrap it so when layered it will slip in cylinder with a nice easy gentle force but contacts dia of main cylinder wall with wet n dry first ,then cotton latter.personally I wrap a 2000 grade wet n dry around it first ,taped rear end ,lube with oil n polish by twist n push forward gently again you want it neatly wrapped,little equal pressure on wall so it gently polishes wall. May take 20 passes . .then I remove paper,wipe clean and
I then add autosol metal paste and polish by pushing forward with a twist ,concentrating on the compression area of the cylinder until it looks shiny .

Now before anyone says I don't polish my cylinders such. Well I do and mine work fantastically and I have it on very good authority it's fine.
But we all have different ways and I respect that .

You can wrap cotton around lolly slick too to polish slot faces too with autosol .

Piston, I use 1200 grade first then 2000 grade wet n dry to get better polished surface on slot and rear of piston skirt,as it sits higher and is the only. Contact to cylinder wall except for o ring seal. then I polish with a dremil polishing mop or cotton cloth again autosol until it resembles chrome.

I use oil stone to smooth spring ends prior to polishing with wet n dry then autosol again.like chrome.
Rear guide again it's steel ,clean inside with wet n dry on round stick polish edges then ,wet n dry the guide outer ,polish after with solvo like chrome.

Piston slot,cylinder slot I do same ,and cocking shoe contact edges.

Wet n dry works well with oil,stones are also very useful and can be bought all sizes n grades.
I use jewellers files too.
These can be often found at boot sales over time v cheaply.

You can wrap spring in wet n dry to polish outer and around dowel to polish inner too.

Personally I would use original spring ,polished,guide polished. and cut a piston sleeve liner from a shampoo bottle plastic that simulated ptfe sheet.
This way you will see and feel how your deburr polish has improved your rifle .

You can find a steel or brass washer to fit rear guide, polish up too .
Same with front of spring inside piston add a polished washer ,to hold sleeve and aid rotation.

I'm sure their must be guides on net how ,what people have done such like.
It's just about taking off rough edges, then smooth and polish as required.

I'd be v tempted to run a brush up the barrel too, even if you bought one and pulled it through without a rod.
I use 100% cotton mop strands on my pull through too cut to lengths .folded in half..

Have fun,take your time. And above all be extra careful you don't cause damage with tools.

[rapidresponse1]

id leave alone

[jirushi]

If you want to have a go why not. Those who do nothing learn "0"!!

Simular to the supersport in ways so I will try and to explain what I do on mine.
Deburr all slots in main cylinder and piston.
It's safe practice to cut cardboard from cereal to slip in cylinder opposite slot you will work on.
If you use jewellers files or simular saves damage if you slip ,go to far and catch inner cylinder wall.

I stuff rag or simular in cylinder compression area saves too much debri going in less to clean out when prior to polishing .

You can beburr with tiny files, stones of suitable size or get grades of wet n dry glued on ice lolly sticks .

Next I would get a wooden Dowell,wrapped In soft cotton neatly smoothly.I fix in end with drawing pin ,tape on back edge to hold cotton neatly.

You want to wrap it so when layered it will slip in cylinder with a nice easy gentle force but contacts dia of main cylinder wall with wet n dry first ,then cotton latter.personally I wrap a 2000 grade wet n dry around it first ,taped rear end ,lube with oil n polish by twist n push forward gently again you want it neatly wrapped,little equal pressure on wall so it gently polishes wall. May take 20 passes . .then I remove paper,wipe clean and
I then add autosol metal paste and polish by pushing forward with a twist ,concentrating on the compression area of the cylinder until it looks shiny .

Now before anyone says I don't polish my cylinders such. Well I do and mine work fantastically and I have it on very good authority it's fine.
But we all have different ways and I respect that .

You can wrap cotton around lolly slick too to polish slot faces too with autosol .

Piston, I use 1200 grade first then 2000 grade wet n dry to get better polished surface on slot and rear of piston skirt,as it sits higher and is the only. Contact to cylinder wall except for o ring seal. then I polish with a dremil polishing mop or cotton cloth again autosol until it resembles chrome.

I use oil stone to smooth spring ends prior to polishing with wet n dry then autosol again.like chrome.
Rear guide again it's steel ,clean inside with wet n dry on round stick polish edges then ,wet n dry the guide outer ,polish after with solvo like chrome.

Piston slot,cylinder slot I do same ,and cocking shoe contact edges.

Wet n dry works well with oil,stones are also very useful and can be bought all sizes n grades.
I use jewellers files too.
These can be often found at boot sales over time v cheaply.

You can wrap spring in wet n dry to polish outer and around dowel to polish inner too.

Personally I would use original spring ,polished,guide polished. and cut a piston sleeve liner from a shampoo bottle plastic that simulated ptfe sheet.
This way you will see and feel how your deburr polish has improved your rifle .

You can find a steel or brass washer to fit rear guide, polish up too .
Same with front of spring inside piston add a polished washer ,to hold sleeve and aid rotation.

I'm sure their must be guides on net how ,what people have done such like.
It's just about taking off rough edges, then smooth and polish as required.

I'd be v tempted to run a brush up the barrel too, even if you bought one and pulled it through without a rod.
I use 100% cotton mop strands on my pull through too cut to lengths .folded in half..

Have fun,take your time. And above all be extra careful you don't cause damage with tools.

Thank you very much original45 for this outstanding advice.
I just read it with great pleasure.

Thank you also to the others who have commented. I understand that some of you say "leave alone", but I'd rather try a few things and learn, like original45 points out.
Otherwise I will never develop some skills, experience and knowledge. And this Meteor can do better, I'm sure. I am confident with repairing and improving my pcp's, so why not learn about springers with the Meteor.

I have ordered a nylon spring guide and top hat from Chambers, and a second standard main spring, so that I can test with different spring lengths, and feel the difference between a polished standard spring guide and washer, and nylon ones. The gun now produces 8 ft/lbs with 8.44 gr JSB Exact 4.53. The pellets seem to be a bit loose in the barrel even though it's 4.53; perhaps the barrel has a wider section at the start, for ease of loading. Will have to test different pellets.

This will be a nice project. I will add updates. Need to collect the right tools and materials first.

By the way does someone know which mounts to use? Yesterday I tried standard 11 mm mounts, but they didn't work. I think it's 13mm. As the mount grooves are cut in the cylinder, it's a bit awkward to measure. Also the mounts will need to have sharp contact areas with the grooves, as the grooves are pretty shallow.

Cheers! Louis

[Peter Dunkley]

All good advice. BUT why do we tolerate new guns which require this treatment to get them to be "sweet" "De burr"? There should not be any burrs! Ok with a budget gun but todays top names suffer and they are not exactly made down to a price. I would for instance never buy, nor should anyone else a gun which is prone to galling. I know the OPs gun is not new but many such threads do apply to new guns.

Just the thoughts of someone who hates being shafted.

[gunstock]

Louis,

For me, the aim is to remove any burrs from the inside of the cylinder, and to leave a lightly cross-hatched finish.

I use green 3M Scotchbrite to finish the insides of my cylinders - cut a slot in a dowel, and insert a 2" x 4" strip of Scotchbrite, wind up, put in cylinder and rotate with electric drill.

After cleaning, I burnish a mix (75/25) of sub-micron graphite/0.5u tungsten disulphide into the cylinder surface using a chamois leather mop.

The bores of internal combustion engines are cross hatched, and the premium barrel makers (Krieger, Obermeyer etc.) finish-lap their barrels to ca. 320 'grit', so mirror-polish does not seem the way to go

Have fun & a good Sunday

Best regards

Russ

I am interested to know why the use of a leather mop

[Peter Dunkley]

Cylinders of motors have nothing to do with airgun cylinders.

Cross hatching does work but only if the oil is replenished in the bore, as in a motor. Any oil or grease retained by cross hatching in an air gun is soon lost and you end up with a bore which is not smooth!

Modern vehicles are not cross hatched and have a glass smooth bore.

[jirushi]

If you want to have a go why not. Those who do nothing learn "0"!!

Simular to the supersport in ways so I will try and to explain what I do on mine.
Deburr all slots in main cylinder and piston.
It's safe practice to cut cardboard from cereal to slip in cylinder opposite slot you will work on.
If you use jewellers files or simular saves damage if you slip ,go to far and catch inner cylinder wall.

I stuff rag or simular in cylinder compression area saves too much debri going in less to clean out when prior to polishing .

You can beburr with tiny files, stones of suitable size or get grades of wet n dry glued on ice lolly sticks .

Next I would get a wooden Dowell,wrapped In soft cotton neatly smoothly.I fix in end with drawing pin ,tape on back edge to hold cotton neatly.

You want to wrap it so when layered it will slip in cylinder with a nice easy gentle force but contacts dia of main cylinder wall with wet n dry first ,then cotton latter.personally I wrap a 2000 grade wet n dry around it first ,taped rear end ,lube with oil n polish by twist n push forward gently again you want it neatly wrapped,little equal pressure on wall so it gently polishes wall. May take 20 passes . .then I remove paper,wipe clean and
I then add autosol metal paste and polish by pushing forward with a twist ,concentrating on the compression area of the cylinder until it looks shiny .

Now before anyone says I don't polish my cylinders such. Well I do and mine work fantastically and I have it on very good authority it's fine.
But we all have different ways and I respect that .

You can wrap cotton around lolly slick too to polish slot faces too with autosol .

Piston, I use 1200 grade first then 2000 grade wet n dry to get better polished surface on slot and rear of piston skirt,as it sits higher and is the only. Contact to cylinder wall except for o ring seal. then I polish with a dremil polishing mop or cotton cloth again autosol until it resembles chrome.

I use oil stone to smooth spring ends prior to polishing with wet n dry then autosol again.like chrome.
Rear guide again it's steel ,clean inside with wet n dry on round stick polish edges then ,wet n dry the guide outer ,polish after with solvo like chrome.

Piston slot,cylinder slot I do same ,and cocking shoe contact edges.

Wet n dry works well with oil,stones are also very useful and can be bought all sizes n grades.
I use jewellers files too.
These can be often found at boot sales over time v cheaply.

You can wrap spring in wet n dry to polish outer and around dowel to polish inner too.

Personally I would use original spring ,polished,guide polished. and cut a piston sleeve liner from a shampoo bottle plastic that simulated ptfe sheet.
This way you will see and feel how your deburr polish has improved your rifle .

You can find a steel or brass washer to fit rear guide, polish up too .
Same with front of spring inside piston add a polished washer ,to hold sleeve and aid rotation.

I'm sure their must be guides on net how ,what people have done such like.
It's just about taking off rough edges, then smooth and polish as required.

I'd be v tempted to run a brush up the barrel too, even if you bought one and pulled it through without a rod.
I use 100% cotton mop strands on my pull through too cut to lengths .folded in half..

Have fun,take your time. And above all be extra careful you don't cause damage with tools.

Hi, I've already done most of your recommendations and the difference is amazing. It's now a very well handling airgun. I will test accuracy today.
Cheers

[original45]

That's good news, it's hard to tell the extent of the polishing but generally on the piston rear skirt,slots,so on it will polish like chrome nearly.

The rear guide that is held in place via the steel through pin, if you look where the guide sits on it the pin that is you will see machining marks .
Usually I will polish that too after removing the machining rings.

If your careful and keep the plat faces as it and don't remove from the edges you could also polish the trigger sear faces.
Sometimes they require a 2000g wet n dry with oil then autosol to polish up.
Did you add a piston sleeve ,if not something like the plastic from a shampoo bottle or the old fashioned fairy liquid bottles that were.that's the kind of plastic you want almost like ptfe sheet.

On many spring air guns a sleeve is probably the cheapest or free even single best tune item.
I fit mine so as I can feel a slight contact of the spring as I slip it in .not tight but you can tell theirs a contact around the spring.

Or as close too anyway.

In my bsa rifles and scorpion pistols I found the rws hobbies in 22 totally awesome even at 100ft plus.

Nice work anyway.you can almost feel the difference when you 're fit it all after a lube.
Take it all one step at a time,you might find other metal to metal contact places that a polish may be beneficial.

I find a bronze brush through the barrel can help too.most air rifles land and grooves never ever get cleaned and some get fouled of oxidized lead and plastic even.
Won't hurt once in a lifetime.

Takes a few dozen to 're lead up to return accuracy.

Anyway your journey has started.hope you enjoyed it as much as I used too.
Well done ,I hope the action is much nicer.


Just to add ,I prefer a good spring sleeve over just a top hat .both is fine too.

[jirushi]

That's good news, it's hard to tell the extent of the polishing but generally on the piston rear skirt,slots,so on it will polish like chrome nearly.

The rear guide that is held in place via the steel through pin, if you look where the guide sits on it the pin that is you will see machining marks .
Usually I will polish that too after removing the machining rings.

If your careful and keep the plat faces as it and don't remove from the edges you could also polish the trigger sear faces.
Sometimes they require a 2000g wet n dry with oil then autosol to polish up.
Did you add a piston sleeve ,if not something like the plastic from a shampoo bottle or the old fashioned fairy liquid bottles that were.that's the kind of plastic you want almost like ptfe sheet.

On many spring air guns a sleeve is probably the cheapest or free even single best tune item.
I fit mine so as I can feel a slight contact of the spring as I slip it in .not tight but you can tell theirs a contact around the spring.

Or as close too anyway.

In my bsa rifles and scorpion pistols I found the rws hobbies in 22 totally awesome even at 100ft plus.

Nice work anyway.you can almost feel the difference when you 're fit it all after a lube.
Take it all one step at a time,you might find other metal to metal contact places that a polish may be beneficial.

I find a bronze brush through the barrel can help too.most air rifles land and grooves never ever get cleaned and some get fouled of oxidized lead and plastic even.
Won't hurt once in a lifetime.

Takes a few dozen to 're lead up to return accuracy.

Anyway your journey has started.hope you enjoyed it as much as I used too.
Well done ,I hope the action is much nicer.


Just to add ,I prefer a good spring sleeve over just a top hat .both is fine too.

Good morning,
Thank you for the advice!

I tried a thin (0.5 mm) ptfe piston sleeve two days ago, but it didn't work: the cocking arm shoes and the spring caught it after a few shots and the sleeve was damaged, reducing power and leading to problems. I will try a shampoo bottle sleeve, but I think there isn't enough room for it between the piston and the spring? It's quite a tight fit anyway. Have you tried this in your Meteor?

Yesterday I tested accuracy with .177 8.44gr JSB Exact's. I did about 150 shots, and I was a bit frustrated tbh. I am determined to persist and try a few more things. It's probably also a matter of learning to shoot with springers again; I am so used to my pcp's. The gun is hold sensitive, I am pretty sure of that though. Probably because it's so light. Even with the polishing and spring guide/top hat, it has a fair bit of recoil. I understand this is because of the short compression chamber; a strong spring is needed to make power.

The vibration and the small front stock fixing screws mean that the screws loosen up easily. I had to retighten after each approx. 20 shots. I tried a drop of a product which I thought is similar to blue Loctite, but it's rubbish. Didn't make the screws stay in place at all. Will have to find blue Loctite.

Then the scope grooves are quite shallow. My new 13 mm Sportsmatch rings do quite a good job, but they do move backwards a bit after approx. 50 shots. I will have to fit a thick screw at the rear of the cylinder to act as a scope stop.

Anyway there were a few tight (1 inch) groups at 20 meters. But a few shots later the pellets were hitting somewhere else.
I will also try another BSA barrel, as this one has a few scratches on the inside (maybe someone shot dart-type pellets in the past). I think any break barrel BSA barrel should fit; I have .22 and .177 Spitfire barrels, which are even choked - will be interesting!

The pellet speed was very constant all along - that's good (in the 660's ft/s).

Lots more to try before I give up.
Otherwise it will be a good plinker anyway. That it is already.

Is your Meteor accurate?

Cheers

[original45]

You may need to try a tin piston liner instead. Maybe the base of biscuit tin or one if those steel coffee containers .
Could the end of the cocking leaver do with a Polish too.

Yes often PTFE can get damaged.I'd try tin sheet n a leaver end polish.

In all honestly I have a meteor never shot it or worked upon it.
But have many super sports, scorpions, air spotters lightning's.
Not dissimilar.

Persistence