What premium would you put on the first/last of a model?

[walnutfarmmick]

This query was sparked by watchaparts post below regarding last serial numbers. Earlier this year I bid on Webley MkIII which claimed to be the earliest known with the serial number 22. I can't remember what I bid on it, just that it wasn't enough. I do remember racking my brains in an effort to value it. I wasn't able to attend the auction so it was a case of cross my fingers and email a commission bid. As I did that I was well aware that 'auction fever' on the day made success unlikely with those in the room having the advantage of handling the piece whereas I was bidding blind. The estimate was about £165 to £220 and the rifle was described as in good working order and condition by an auctioneer who I've always found to be prophetic. unfortunately I wasn't able to print the results so I don't know what it achieved on the day although I'm fairly sure at least a couple of BBSers will know, even if they weren't present.

That's been the long way round to ask the title of the post. Bear in mind that it is only the Earliest Known until another comes along with 21 possibilities out there. I'd welcome any thoughts or comments on the topic.

ATB, Mick

[johnbaz]

Hi Mick

Sorry i've no idea but I do know who has the last ever BSA Airsporter produced, It was confirmed by BSA to have been the last they ever made!!

Actually, Thinking about it, It could be right here in my house as i'm looking after some air rifles for a friend for a few weeks!!



John

[Binners]

I have seen Number 2 Mick, but although the numbers may be low, I was told by a man that knows 'Webley MK3 Ser Numbers are confusing'

[walnutfarmmick]

I have seen Number 2 Mick, but although the numbers may be low, I was told by a man that knows 'Webley MK3 Ser Numbers are confusing'

Thanks, Pete. If nothing else that's softened the blow of missing it. I don't know the provenance of 'mine' but I suspect it may have come from a world-class collection that the owner is very wisely bleeding onto the market in penny numbers. Several I've bought have had what I presume were collection identifiers in tiny script.

Logic and Webley are words rarely used in the same sentence but its a bit like living in a 300 year-old house. I know full well that there'd be a really good reason for the back door to be 5'6" high and 3'6" wide but the man who could tell me will have been dead since the Regency.

Anyway I was only checking my mail while I had a cup of coffee. I'll go back to my shed and carry on* with the time machine now. If I'm successful I'll see you last week, Mick.

I'll be the one with the big grin and a barrowload of IMD .25s.

*That's carry on in a nonsexual sense, as in continue development.

[Binners]

I have seen Number 2 Mick, but although the numbers may be low, I was told by a man that knows 'Webley MK3 Ser Numbers are confusing'

Whoops, make that Number 3

[Garvin]

This query was sparked by watchaparts post below regarding last serial numbers. Earlier this year I bid on Webley MkIII which claimed to be the earliest known with the serial number 22. I can't remember what I bid on it, just that it wasn't enough. I do remember racking my brains in an effort to value it. I wasn't able to attend the auction so it was a case of cross my fingers and email a commission bid. As I did that I was well aware that 'auction fever' on the day made success unlikely with those in the room having the advantage of handling the piece whereas I was bidding blind. The estimate was about £165 to £220 and the rifle was described as in good working order and condition by an auctioneer who I've always found to be prophetic. unfortunately I wasn't able to print the results so I don't know what it achieved on the day although I'm fairly sure at least a couple of BBSers will know, even if they weren't present.

That's been the long way round to ask the title of the post. Bear in mind that it is only the Earliest Known until another comes along with 21 possibilities out there. I'd welcome any thoughts or comments on the topic.

ATB, Mick

One of those 21 possibilities is this one, serial no.3 according to the owner.

[Muskett]

The premium is in the "talking point". What premium is between the collectors and what value they put on such trivia. I think condition is more important.
1st and last do hold a little more if it can be verified. Usually these stay in house, or to manufacturers example store, or as presentation pieces. But make enough guns and then "another" gun for keeping is cash tied up and space, so often released.

Nice to have as a talking point. Does need some proof and provenance to justify though.

[slug-gun]

I think also that condition is more important than a low number, PROVIDED the low numbered rifle and the one higher are mechanically identical. I suppose a gun with a single digit number would command a premium over a similar but identical later version, and the level of that premium would be personal to a purchaser on the day?
A genuine No.1 would be quite a different proposition however.

As an aside I remember a well known dealer telling me that some Webley air rifles sold in the late 1980's/early 90's were often made with more than one serial number 1 ! Presumably so several No.1's could be presented to 'friends' of the company?

Rather cynical really, and there are no doubt owners of No.1 Webley Eclipse I think may have been one example, who are rejoicing in the albeit mistaken knowledge they own the very first.

[Josie & John]

I think also that condition is more important than a low number, PROVIDED the low numbered rifle and the one higher are mechanically identical. I suppose a gun with a single digit number would command a premium over a similar but identical later version, and the level of that premium would be personal to a purchaser on the day?
A genuine No.1 would be quite a different proposition however.

As an aside I remember a well known dealer telling me that some Webley air rifles sold in the late 1980's/early 90's were often made with more than one serial number 1 ! Presumably so several No.1's could be presented to 'friends' of the company?

Rather cynical really, and there are no doubt owners of No.1 Webley Eclipse I think may have been one example, who are rejoicing in the albeit mistaken knowledge they own the very first.

I agree wholeheartedly with the first paragraph. The same goes with calibre, when some place a premium on .177 over .22 when more .22 versions of a particular model were originally made. For example, I was once told by Webley's ex Works Manager the company made .22 Mark 3 air rifles at a ratio of 9:1 compared with .177 versions. I'll choose the rifle in better condition, all else being equal.

I have also heard rumours of several No 1s being stamped up but have never some across two identically numbered rifles. As Slug Gun says, perhaps they are part of collections whose owners believe them to be genuine No 1s.

John

[Troubledshooter]

The only similarly numbered items I know of are two Webley Junior pistols with the number 1, of which I have one of the examples and I do know who has the other one.