What premium would you put on the first/last of a model?

[Troubledshooter]

The only similarly numbered items I know of are two Webley Junior pistols with the number 1, of which I have one of the examples and I do know who has the other one.

[pjbingham]

Not sure I’d pay more for the last of anything but I certainly would for an early low ser number. A friend of mine has an early Webley Mk3 (ser num 42) and I know he wouldn’t even consider offers less than £500 for it, there may be a couple of earlier ones known but I’d say any below 100 are of more interest and would command a higher price.

[Geezer]

About 25%+ on very early or late serial numbers.

To widen the discussion, a general principle is that the original model of anything made over a long run is desirable, as the original. And the last model is often desirable as the perfected model. But that is not always the case. Other factors intrude.

A car example would be the good old Morris Minor. The original side-valve 1948 is very desirable as the original. The 1970s 1073cc model is the most usable. The late 50s/60s 948cc model is arguably the best compromise between usability and history, but, last time I checked, does not command a premium.

Compare airguns:

- Airsporter Mk1 is better made than later guns and original. Mk2 is very nearly as good, or as good. All other MKs are much worse, except the late Mk7 RB2, which commands a massive (100-200%) premium over a regular Mk6.

- Webley III. First is best. Last is worst. First gets collector points. Best compromise, though, if you intend to shoot it, is the Series 3 and 4.

- Post war Diana 35 and 50. The early 1950s guns are lovely. The last ones aren’t. Oddly, pricing isn’t much if at all different between the 70s guns and the final 80s guns.

- Webley Vulcans. I see no marked price difference across the three series, although the first one ought to have collector value, and the third series, especially the KS and later Stingray (“Stingray, Stingray, bah bah bah bah”, sorry, I’m a Gerry Anderson fan) are better shooters.

- Diana LP5s. I think the early post-war wood grip guns get a small premium from those who know they exist. Despite varying degrees of rarity, I see no particular sign that the later brown and grey plastic grip versions, or the later alloy-frame LP5Gs (or LP6s) are worth much more or less than each other; perhaps because the later guns hold better than the earlier ones, perhaps because no one cares enough to create a competitive market.

- FWB Sports. The Mk2 is the best. Fact.

[walnutfarmmick]

About 25%+ on very early or late serial numbers.

To widen the discussion, a general principle is that the original model of anything made over a long run is desirable, as the original. And the last model is often desirable as the perfected model. But that is not always the case. Other factors intrude.

A car example would be the good old Morris Minor. The original side-valve 1948 is very desirable as the original. The 1970s 1073cc model is the most usable. The late 50s/60s 948cc model is arguably the best compromise between usability and history, but, last time I checked, does not command a premium.

Compare airguns:

- Airsporter Mk1 is better made than later guns and original. Mk2 is very nearly as good, or as good. All other MKs are much worse, except the late Mk7 RB2, which commands a massive (100-200%) premium over a regular Mk6.

- Webley III. First is best. Last is worst. First gets collector points. Best compromise, though, if you intend to shoot it, is the Series 3 and 4.

- Post war Diana 35 and 50. The early 1950s guns are lovely. The last ones aren’t. Oddly, pricing isn’t much if at all different between the 70s guns and the final 80s guns.

- Webley Vulcans. I see no marked price difference across the three series, although the first one ought to have collector value, and the third series, especially the KS and later Stingray (“Stingray, Stingray, bah bah bah bah”, sorry, I’m a Gerry Anderson fan) are better shooters.

- Diana LP5s. I think the early post-war wood grip guns get a small premium from those who know they exist. Despite varying degrees of rarity, I see no particular sign that the later brown and grey plastic grip versions, or the later alloy-frame LP5Gs (or LP6s) are worth much more or less than each other; perhaps because the later guns hold better than the earlier ones, perhaps because no one cares enough to create a competitive market.

- FWB Sports. The Mk2 is the best. Fact.

Now we've widened the discussion and cars have been mentioned I'm reminded of a pal who really values low mileage light commercials. I'm afraid I can't really see the point because all you can do is look at it and talk about it. Without devaluing it anyway. I've another mate who gave about £22,000 for a 1970-ish A60 van with under 2000 miles on the clock about 18 months ago. To my way of thinking that's a lot of money for something you hardly dare use.

ATB, Mick

[Muskett]

Is there a room in your own house that you don't use?

Gold? Can't eat it so whats the point? It holds value and looks nice. Same goes for all collectables. A symptom of accummulation of wealth...and its fun. We have been hoarding "wealth" forever, like a bunch of magpies.

When it comes to collecting its whatever floats your boat. How big a collection then its what funds are there to put to it. Lots to love about air rifles. One FWB Sport MKII isn't enough

[slug-gun]

Is there a room in your own house that you don't use?

Gold? Can't eat it so whats the point? It holds value and looks nice. Same goes for all collectables. A symptom of accummulation of wealth...and its fun. We have been hoarding "wealth" forever, like a bunch of magpies.

When it comes to collecting its whatever floats your boat. How big a collection then its what funds are there to put to it. Lots to love about air rifles. One FWB Sport MKII isn't enough

Hmm - "Hoarding wealth" eh? Not sure that is necessarily true in many cases. Hoarding a deprecating asset may often be more the case? The collectors that have sought out and cherished pre and post war collectables are now old and dying, or frankly dead, and are not being replaced by a younger generation of collector in any quantity. Further those younger collectors want 'stuff' they remember from their youth, and not an old Airsporter from the 1950's, lovely as they are?

So many old toys for example of one popular collecting area, are now worth less than they were 20+ years ago. I think we may see similar with the more common or garden airguns in the future?

[nurek]

I have asked a similar question here:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-last-gun-made

Most people that commented have stated that it makes no difference to them, but if I was to put a number on it, I'd agree with Geezer:

About 25%+ on very early or late serial numbers.[...]

[Muskett]

Hmm - "Hoarding wealth" eh? Not sure that is necessarily true in many cases. Hoarding a deprecating asset may often be more the case? The collectors that have sought out and cherished pre and post war collectables are now old and dying, or frankly dead, and are not being replaced by a younger generation of collector in any quantity. Further those younger collectors want 'stuff' they remember from their youth, and not an old Airsporter from the 1950's, lovely as they are?

So many old toys for example of one popular collecting area, are now worth less than they were 20+ years ago. I think we may see similar with the more common or garden airguns in the future?

The good stuff holds value quite well. How the next generation or generations see a certain collectable is something quite different. If the momentum is retained then there is no loss of capital and sometimes a small return.
Depth of wealth has to be balance to loss of opportunity, but also security.
What value to the enjoyment a collectable gives to the person?
Its always been who and how many are interested in a certain collectable. That has always changed over time.

Sure air rifles will move with the fashion and age related interest. But the good stuff should hold its own if not make some great return. Where the interests holds or builds the value goes. Disposable income always makes a difference too, as people need spare cash to follow their passions when collecting.

Like a painting the real value is in the enjoyment of ownership for a while. No one should do it just for the money. Your lucky if there is any real uplift in value. Some things do some won't. Airguns do "fair", with the occasional one doing well.

[Garvin]

Hmm - "Hoarding wealth" eh? Not sure that is necessarily true in many cases. Hoarding a deprecating asset may often be more the case? The collectors that have sought out and cherished pre and post war collectables are now old and dying, or frankly dead, and are not being replaced by a younger generation of collector in any quantity. Further those younger collectors want 'stuff' they remember from their youth, and not an old Airsporter from the 1950's, lovely as they are?

So many old toys for example of one popular collecting area, are now worth less than they were 20+ years ago. I think we may see similar with the more common or garden airguns in the future?

Not saying you're wrong about this in general, Chris, because I agree, but some collectables do seem to command very high prices at auction when accessible from all over the world via the internet (ie Tell mod 3s). I don't think we should be unduly gloomy that nice pieces won't be of interest to future generations just because they didn't lust after them in their youths. Agree this will happen with run of the mill stuff - and has already happened if you think how cheap a useable-but-well-used prewar BSA is.