Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Ge600/MEC/Unique/Esprit Carabine. Free floating barrel???

  1. #16
    RobinC's Avatar
    RobinC is offline Awesome Shooting Coach and Author.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Gt Yarmouth
    Posts
    1,315
    For heavens sake Bob,

    You are moving your older air rifles on to buy modern ones, and now when you consider small bore, but you like an old one!

    Your interest in oldies? That one, BSA Martini's? I bet it would last seconds, until you saw a KK500 Anatomic!!!

    And Walther don't make a carbon stock, but G&E do! So you could have an Anatomic Walther, and a Carbon G&E.

    Nice example though Russ.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rossendale and Formby
    Posts
    5,595
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    For heavens sake Bob,

    You are moving your older air rifles on to buy modern ones, and now when you consider small bore, but you like an old one!

    Your interest in oldies? That one, BSA Martini's? I bet it would last seconds, until you saw a KK500 Anatomic!!!

    And Walther don't make a carbon stock, but G&E do! So you could have an Anatomic Walther, and a Carbon G&E.

    Nice example though Russ.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    You are right - a KK500 Anatomic would be a lovely thing to own - and you know I have a weakness for the Anatomic stock.

    ..but the classic lines of Russ's old Ruskie really appeal to me, and if I were to take up .22 rim fire rifle (it is a possibility) I would want to try a less expensive rifle to start with to make sure I could get up again after laying down - this could be a problem at my age!

    In truth I have not researched .22 rim fire rifles enough to make an educated choice on what would be best for me to start with, but I do like Walther target air rifles and I think the Anatomic stock is an all time classic and so you are right - if I did go down that road, the Anatomic would be the one I would like to end up with.
    Last edited by zooma; 26-11-2018 at 11:21 AM.
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Taunton
    Posts
    496
    If you are buying new the KK500 is a strong choice. The design is more advanced the the Anschutz 54.30 (really a t*rted up 1913),and looks less fiddly than the new FWB 2800. I think it was built to emulate the very rigid and short Bleiker and G&E actions, without the eye-watering price tag. That it seems to do very well.

    There's nothing wrong with the Anschutz 54.30; if you already had an Anschutz, you could buy just the barrel-action. But comparing complete rifles, the Walther has a technical edge.

    Other new factory options are the FWB 2700 (solid and reliable), and the Tesro SBR100. I've yet to see one of these in the flesh. Izhmash, Salva, Tanner, Turbo, and Vaskent don't have a UK importer, and consequently are unobtanium.

    If you're buying used, you will see more Anschutz than any other brand. Walther and FWB didn't really become popular until the late '90s so are scarcer. There's nothing wrong with a Match 54; these are accurate, durable, and comfortable rifles. If you don't want something unusual, Match 54s work, as do BSAs. If you want to go off the beaten track, what about a Valmet, or a Hammerli. There's also Barnet, Borlov, Centre-10, Diana, Furter, Jurek, Remington, Schultz & Larsen, S&N, Suhl (DDR Haenel & Merkel),Toz, Unique, Vickers, Weihrauch, and Winchester.

    China did make an Olympic-winning Smallbore, but I've never heard of one in the UK.
    Last edited by tim s; 26-11-2018 at 12:02 PM.

  4. #19
    RobinC's Avatar
    RobinC is offline Awesome Shooting Coach and Author.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Gt Yarmouth
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    to make sure I could get up again after laying down - this could be a problem at my age!

    .
    The wife has a mini Austrian Cowbell on her breech flag, so it wakes up the old members who may have nodded off!

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  5. #20
    RobinC's Avatar
    RobinC is offline Awesome Shooting Coach and Author.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Gt Yarmouth
    Posts
    1,315

    Stock

    just to return to the original poster:-

    You are using a 20+ year old design rifle action and trigger, technology has moved on in those years a lot, and I know the MEC project EC is 2600 Euro cost alone, there will also be extras, such as butt plate, possibly sights, unless you use the old ones.

    And, you will still have a 20 year old rifle in a new stock, and a stock that you will need to develop, and you will probably need custom clamps for your barrel.

    This is not a ten shot sort out job, it will need many hundreds of rounds of testing, and the associated range time to get the best from it, there are clamp locations to test, and torque settings to ascertain, and even on its best, then it may not (probably won't) be any better, tighter groups, than it is now!
    Technology has developed, lock time are faster, triggers are better, sights are better, butt plates are different, you would be better selling your complete rifle, and buying a new modern one, have a modern short action, faster lock time, a modern trigger, modern sights, and a modern stock and butt plate, why do you think the top world level shots use the latest technology, and if you sold the old one, for not a lot more than the cost of doing the same with your old action! The MEC project stock is top tech, why put a 20 year old design in it?

    The KK500 is the modern pick of the bunch, it is more ergonomic, better equipped, good butt plates, sights, etc, its proven, and cost effective, and it gets the results!
    My wife has a KK500, because she also shoots 300 mt (with a Keppeler) she wanted her KK500 in a Keppeler stock, so she had her two rifles the same feel and balance, this was a project done with the help and cooperation of both Walther, and Keppeler, it shoots superbly, but I can tell you there was a lot of work, testing, and time, to achieve the end result.

    My advice, just sell the Centre 10, and buy a new modern well equipped rifle.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Last edited by RobinC; 26-11-2018 at 01:03 PM.
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Taunton
    Posts
    496
    Robin,

    I believe Bing, the OP, has acquired a nearly new/old stock barrel, sans stock. The Centre-10 has an Anschutz 5018 trigger; yes, some of the recent designs are better, but it's a sophisticated match trigger, not some single-lever 10lb military job.

    The modern rigid actions have an advantage over older designs, but have not rendered them totally obsolete. Would it be easier to buy a complete new rifle? Yes, of course it would, but sometimes it's fun to assemble your own. If you have a good barrel, buying a new stock is far cheaper than a complete new rifle.

    To be fair you would have to set up any new rifle, regardless of make, especially if you change to a non-standard bedding.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rossendale and Formby
    Posts
    5,595
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    The wife has a mini Austrian Cowbell on her breech flag, so it wakes up the old members who may have nodded off!

    Have Fun
    Robin

    A bell could be helpful to keep me awake ?

    Is prone rim fire shooting really that boring - enough to cause sleep?

    A bell could be handy though - as long as I can reach it I may be able to call for help when I want to stand up !
    Last edited by zooma; 26-11-2018 at 08:09 PM.
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Peterborough
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    just to return to the original poster:-

    You are using a 20+ year old design rifle action and trigger, technology has moved on in those years a lot, and I know the MEC project EC is 2600 Euro cost alone, there will also be extras, such as butt plate, possibly sights, unless you use the old ones.

    And, you will still have a 20 year old rifle in a new stock, and a stock that you will need to develop, and you will probably need custom clamps for your barrel.

    This is not a ten shot sort out job, it will need many hundreds of rounds of testing, and the associated range time to get the best from it, there are clamp locations to test, and torque settings to ascertain, and even on its best, then it may not (probably won't) be any better, tighter groups, than it is now!
    Technology has developed, lock time are faster, triggers are better, sights are better, butt plates are different, you would be better selling your complete rifle, and buying a new modern one, have a modern short action, faster lock time, a modern trigger, modern sights, and a modern stock and butt plate, why do you think the top world level shots use the latest technology, and if you sold the old one, for not a lot more than the cost of doing the same with your old action! The MEC project stock is top tech, why put a 20 year old design in it?

    The KK500 is the modern pick of the bunch, it is more ergonomic, better equipped, good butt plates, sights, etc, its proven, and cost effective, and it gets the results!
    My wife has a KK500, because she also shoots 300 mt (with a Keppeler) she wanted her KK500 in a Keppeler stock, so she had her two rifles the same feel and balance, this was a project done with the help and cooperation of both Walther, and Keppeler, it shoots superbly, but I can tell you there was a lot of work, testing, and time, to achieve the end result.

    My advice, just sell the Centre 10, and buy a new modern well equipped rifle.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    All pretty much true, but how much has the tech improved the accuracy of the barrel/action. Ultimately it comes down to the operator, if that operates everything properly it should go in the middle. A nice comfy well sorted stock would help with this, once it's set up correctly, yes, lots of tuning to be had with either the barrel clamps in the EC case but it would also need plenty of work on the butt hook, cheekpiece, handstop, trigger, sights, rear and fore etc etc regardless of what stock.

    Modern kit is nice but the price in one hit is out of my reach, so as with my previous rifles it has to be done Frankenstein style.

    Not fussed about lock times on the range, I'd be using a spare Gemini butt hook, I have some nice gehmann wind sights going spare which I like and the foresight would be either the new race or a centra score plus, 22mm inserts, Handstops aplenty and access to a good variety of ammo. I liked the look of the centre 10 as it's a chunky thing with a chunky bolt, the shillen barrel appears in superb Nick and with a claimed low shot count (never raced or rallied etc ). But the uit stock is not my cup of tea, maybe for my son when he's a bit older, but not me. I could have a stock machined to fit the c10 (Dolphin was first option) but then it will only fit the c10, barrel clamps would allow another action at some point hence the EC.
    If the c10 comes to nothing in my hands then I'll pass it on and probably revert back to my current rifle, made of: 1913 action, Lilja barrel, Walther sights, centra handstop, Gemini hook, home made cheekpiece and the old cast anschutz stock (which I've returned to on many occasions having tried others lol )

    Thanks for the input Robin, every view point is appreciated but I have a centre 10 and I'm gonna hang on to it for a while, I would like to be comfortable shooting it too though.

    Bing!

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Stafford
    Posts
    4,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Bing! View Post
    All pretty much true, but how much has the tech improved the accuracy of the barrel/action.
    A lot, actually! If you pick up a random 1913 Anschutz from the last 10 years and take it to Eley, you'll probably get some very good groups. Also some wide open groups. The last time I tested my Supermatch (bought new in 2007) it ranged from 15.5mm to 22mm, which Martyn reckoned to be perfectly normal - obviously 22mm is not even holding the 10 ring.

    A modern KK500 or Racer3 will not only group to <14mm, but the worst groups are unlikely to be >17mm. They're not only more accurate, but more consistently accurate over a range of ammunition.

    Of course you can find good examples of older rifles - the Olympic Prone champion (Henri Junghaenel) used a Walther KK300 in Rio - but it was the sixth KK300 he'd tried. That's the choice you make - spend a lot of time and money working through barrels to find a sweet one, or just stump up for a KK500 or Racer3 knowing it'll shoot well out the box (and if it doesn't you send it back and ask them to send you one that works).

    Of course, if you're only shooting integer targets then the advantage is less apparent - if you've got a batch of ammo that groups well, it'll slug in 10s all day long - and a 10 is a 10, whether it's a 10.0 or a 10.8. For integer purposes, there are lots of rifles that are "good enough".

    Stick it on decimal-scoring electronics however and the difference becomes very apparent - the top barrels will shoot 640+ decimal, older barrels will struggle to crack 630.

    The new breed of short-bolt actions are objectively more accurate and less picky about ammo. But depending on what you're doing with them (integer/decimal) and your own expectations based on your standard of shooting, you may not notice the difference.
    Last edited by Hemmers; 27-11-2018 at 10:00 AM.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
    Shooting is my meditation

  10. #25
    RobinC's Avatar
    RobinC is offline Awesome Shooting Coach and Author.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Gt Yarmouth
    Posts
    1,315
    [QUOTE=Bing!;7602051
    If the c10 comes to nothing in my hands then I'll pass it on and probably revert back to my current rifle, made of: 1913 action, Lilja barrel, Walther sights, centra handstop, Gemini hook, home made cheekpiece and the old cast anschutz stock (which I've returned to on many occasions having tried others lol )

    Thanks for the input Robin, every view point is appreciated but I have a centre 10 and I'm gonna hang on to it for a while, I would like to be comfortable shooting it too though.

    Bing![/QUOTE]

    In that case the very best of luck and I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of it, incidentally the Dolphin option would be a good one as well, he is my gun builder of choice, I have a full bore in one that they custom built for me, and they have now rebarreled several rifles for us, as well as machined and fitted alloy bedding in wood stocks, all full bores, their new stock is a great design, beautifully made, I can honestly recommend Dolphin.
    I hope it works, have fun.

    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  11. #26
    tufty is offline I wondered how that worked..
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    claygate
    Posts
    2,370
    Quote Originally Posted by tim s View Post
    From descriptions the clamps are not intended to be mega tight, just enough to hold the barrel. The rubber ring inside may mitigate a little too much pressure, as well as allowing vibration.

    I think it's the position of the clamps along the fore-end that would affect tune.
    I have one of the EC stocks,they recommended the barrel clamps are torqued to between 13 and 15 nm
    Steyr LG110 Hunter,AA410 in Gary Cane stock,HC, Steyr LP50,Morini 164ei,Morini CM84e,Anschutz 1417 thumbhole,Rimfire Magic 10/22,Anschutz 1913,Rieder and Lenz Z2,Keppeler 6mmbr

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Peterborough
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    I have one of the EC stocks,they recommended the barrel clamps are torqued to between 13 and 15 nm
    Is there some tuning involved with the torque settings? If so, what sort of affect did it have?
    Thanks,
    Bing!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •