Crosman Town & Country 107

[Eagleman]

Good morning, there's a company in California called Airgun Exporter, which is run by a Dutch man called Vincent van Gerven.
If you want I can pm you his contact details. I buy something on Fleabay, have it sent to Vincent, and then Vincent sends it to Europe and takes care of all the paperwork.
I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, but my parcels go to Belgium, as apparently customs are better in Belgium. At Schiphol Airport they sometimes stay for "inspection" for months. This Belgium way has worked very well so far. I've used both UPS and USPS. USPS is much cheaper and it was actually quicker and easier too.
Vincent might know about possibilities to send to the UK. I'm sure it's legal, it's just a question of whether the customs officials know the law and what they have in their hands.
Cheers

That is damn good advice Louis to all on here re possible export items from the USA.

For that advice alone I vote you TOP MAN!

[45flint]

Good morning, there's a company in California called Airgun Exporter, which is run by a Dutch man called Vincent van Gerven.
If you want I can pm you his contact details. I buy something on Fleabay, have it sent to Vincent, and then Vincent sends it to Europe and takes care of all the paperwork.
I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, but my parcels go to Belgium, as apparently customs are better in Belgium. At Schiphol Airport they sometimes stay for "inspection" for months. This Belgium way has worked very well so far. I've used both UPS and USPS. USPS is much cheaper and it was actually quicker and easier too.
Vincent might know about possibilities to send to the UK. I'm sure it's legal, it's just a question of whether the customs officials know the law and what they have in their hands.
Cheers

Curious if Vincent imports European airguns for sale in the US?

[micky2]

The problem is not so much getting them sent but it is our customs when they get here. l bought 4 air pistols from the USA a few years ago all got through apart from one a prewar Webley. and the trouble l had getting it through with them wanting written proof of the energy it was doing. after that l didn't buy anymore from the USA. l belive it is worse now.

[danco1987]

Don't get your hopes up, as they no longer ship to GB

No reason why a sub 12 fpe air rifle cannot be sent to you in the UK from the states. I've had complete crosman air rifles (pumpers- 1377s and 2289s) sent in the past from the USA and Canada, one off fleabay, also parts including barrels etc all sent to me direct. Seller would simply label what was in the parcel or "sub 12ftlbs UK legal airgun" and only ever had one stopped and checked by customs, a 1377, which was let through after a little delay. Why are there issues now?

[jirushi]

I think your T&C is just not giving full power? Here are my numbers this morning with Crosman Premiers 14.3 22 cal.

Pumps. FPS
3. 433
6. 580
8. 626

At 8 the average Streak is just about the same, maybe a little higher. I asked that question of Streak owners this year on another forum, low to mid 600s

That’s why it will be fascinating to see what your new one will do with a reseal. I’m betting your surprised, it looks to be pretty much untouched? I don’t think I’ve ever seen Chrony numbers for a .177.

Hi 45flint, that's very interesting thank you. I just had some time to test both my T&C 108 and Blue Streak.
Per number of pumps I took the average velocity of 3 shots.
Here are the results (I can't get the layout right, excuse me):

T&C 108. .22 JSB Exact Diabolo Jumbo Express 14.35 gr
Pumps. FPS ft/lbs
3. 305 3
6. 460 6.7
8. 525 8.8

Blue Streak. .20 JSB Exact Diabolo 13,75 gr
Pumps. FPS ft/lbs
3. 427 5.6
6. 512 8
8. 551 9.3

Both airguns have been professionally resealed within the last 4 months.
Perhaps the T&C prefers the Crosman Premiers that you are using? They might fit better in the barrel?
I'll have to do some testing with different pellets.

The Crosman is a lot quieter at 8 pumps compared with the Sheridan at 8 pumps. Yes, the Sheridan produces more power, but it is way louder. And way harder to pump.
I like them both though!
Can't wait to see what the 107 does.

[jirushi]

That is damn good advice Louis to all on here re possible export items from the USA.

For that advice alone I vote you TOP MAN!

Haha thank you Eagleman

[Geezer]

A small note of caution.

A lot of the nicest American guns hover dangerously around the U.K. power limits. (One reason the U.K. rifle limit was set, at the urging of the U.K. makers, was to prevent their import and sale, at a time when Webley MkIIIs and BSA Airsporters typically made 9-11 ft-lbs.)

As you can see above, 45’s T&C made 12.45 ft-lbs.

As do many of the older Crosmans and Benjis. Especially in .22” - the .177”s are more likely to top out around 10-11.

Unmodified Sheridan C9s in good condition always break the limit, typically making 13 or 14 ft-lbs.

Even the cheapy Crosman 2200s can slightly exceed 12. Not always, but sometimes.

Pistols can be tricky too. For example I’ve seen a US test of a Crosman 150 CO2 pistol (the better-made grandfather of the 2240) that produced around 5.7 with Premiers. That’s a bit close for comfort if a forensic tester tried a more efficient (slightly heavier, better fit to barrel?) pellet in a centrally-heated lab.

There are of course loads of US air guns that will always be safely legal to import. Sadly, some of the best ones, in US form (not those modified for the U.K. market) are either consistently over our limit or sometimes over.

[45flint]

I find it the oddest thing that the Crosman T&C’s are so quiet. At three pumps for plinking it is like there is a silencer on it? My Silver Streak is Sterioded so it sounds at times like a real rifle. There must be some difference in the way the air is released? Could it be all that brass muffles the sound?

[--ped--]

it's only the 140's that are difficult to limit and for all mine I use a blow off piston similar to the uk sharps and uk model of the later c9a bluestreaks
all the other ones can be limited by normal methods

[jirushi]

I think your T&C is just not giving full power? Here are my numbers this morning with Crosman Premiers 14.3 22 cal.

Pumps. FPS
3. 433
6. 580
8. 626

At 8 pumps the average Streak is just about the same, maybe a little higher. I asked that question of Streak owners this year on another forum, low to mid 600s

That’s why it will be fascinating to see what your new one will do with a reseal. I’m betting your surprised, it looks to be pretty much untouched? I don’t think I’ve ever seen Chrony numbers for a .177.

Early this morning I did a few test shots with RWS Hobby's 11.9 gr in the T&C 108. As expected they give higher velocities, but lower energy output.
Wearing a t-shirt instead of a the thick fleece vest of yesterday evening, I noticed exactly what BB Pelletier describes in his article on the T&C:

I noticed a puff of air around my right hand every time the rifle fired, which I initially blamed on the recent resealing job my test rifle had gotten before the test. Then, I examined the bolt lockup more closely and discovered that the real problem was a loose bolt seal. No matter how hard I closed the bolt, that steep cam slot invited it to spring back just enough to exhaust some air. The problem was solved by manually holding the bolt closed with the thumb of my shooting hand as I pulled the trigger. There was still a small puff of air, but it was greatly diminished from what it had been. A real fanatic might have used some automotive valve-grinding compound to hand-lap the front of the bolt into the rear of the barrel; but this wasn’t my rifle, so I left it at that.

DTFletcher has written some advice regarding this problem on the American Vintage Airguns forum.
But this air escaping from the wrong side of the pellet might explain why my 108 is relatively low on power compared to 45's.
Have you noticed this puff of air, 45flint?

[45flint]

Early this morning I did a few test shots with RWS Hobby's 11.9 gr in the T&C 108. As expected they give higher velocities, but lower energy output.
Wearing a t-shirt instead of a the thick fleece vest of yesterday evening, I noticed exactly what BB Pelletier describes in his article on the T&C:

I noticed a puff of air around my right hand every time the rifle fired, which I initially blamed on the recent resealing job my test rifle had gotten before the test. Then, I examined the bolt lockup more closely and discovered that the real problem was a loose bolt seal. No matter how hard I closed the bolt, that steep cam slot invited it to spring back just enough to exhaust some air. The problem was solved by manually holding the bolt closed with the thumb of my shooting hand as I pulled the trigger. There was still a small puff of air, but it was greatly diminished from what it had been. A real fanatic might have used some automotive valve-grinding compound to hand-lap the front of the bolt into the rear of the barrel; but this wasn’t my rifle, so I left it at that.

DTFletcher has written some advice regarding this problem on the American Vintage Airguns forum.
But this air escaping from the wrong side of the pellet might explain why my 108 is relatively low on power compared to 45's.
Have you noticed this puff of air, 45flint?

I do think you are probably onto the issue. I know I read BB Pelletier review many times and if you look at his rifle it is really well used and not in great shape, even missing the barrel spacer. I have never felt any air puff out on firing and my lockup is pretty secure. My rifle though used is in very good original shape. But since you asked the question I thought I would further test it by laying a tissue over the top of the breech and yes it hopped a small bit (1/4 inch) with some oil on the tissue when I fired with 6 pumps. So my breech is not totally locked up either. I suspect that it just locks up better than yours and Pelletier’s? I could put some of my newly acquired damping grease around the probe and see if I get a total seal? I will try that this afternoon. This could explain why a professional reseal only went so far to give you your performance. I doubt any pro on a reseal would rework a breach seal that is metal to metal. Crosman like Sheridan would soon add a O ring to the probe to fix this potential issue.

By the way I tested Hobbys in my rifle the other day as well and like you I saw a very modest increase in speed. I think common wisdom is heavier pellets are better in pneumatics: seemed to hold true. In my spring powered gun they can really make a difference.

[jirushi]

I do think you are probably onto the issue. I know I read BB Pelletier review many times and if you look at his rifle it is really well used and not in great shape, even missing the barrel spacer. I have never felt any air puff out on firing and my lockup is pretty secure. My rifle though used is in very good original shape. But since you asked the question I thought I would further test it by laying a tissue over the top of the breech and yes it hopped a small bit (1/4 inch) with some oil on the tissue when I fired with 6 pumps. So my breech is not totally locked up either. I suspect that it just locks up better than yours and Pelletier’s? I could put some of my newly acquired damping grease around the probe and see if I get a total seal? I will try that this afternoon. This could explain why a professional reseal only went so far to give you your performance. I doubt any pro on a reseal would rework a breach seal that is metal to metal. Crosman like Sheridan would soon add a O ring to the probe to fix this potential issue.

By the way I tested Hobbys in my rifle the other day as well and like you I saw a very modest increase in speed. I think common wisdom is heavier pellets are better in pneumatics: seemed to hold true. In my spring powered gun they can really make a difference.

Very interesting. As my 108 is not 100% original anymore, it might (might...) be interesting to machine the bolt to use an o-ring.
Ped springs to mind immediately for an interesting job like this haha.

[45flint]

Very interesting. As my 108 is not 100% original anymore, it might (might...) be interesting to machine the bolt to use an o-ring.
Ped springs to mind immediately for an interesting job like this haha.

Please hurry up and reseal your 107, that should prove fasinating really on all these issues!

[45flint]

Interesting I applied my new Damping grease “Kilopoise“ that sealed my taps to the probe of my 108. It did eliminate any movement of a tissue put on the breech fired with 6 pumps. Did not seem to change my FPS output, but I assume my leakage was slight? “Kilopoise” is interesting stuff, not sure it’s appreciated in it Country of origin? Lol

Also not sure that this will be a lasting effect as more and more pellets are fired. But Kilopoise is the stickiest most bizarre compound I have ever encountered.

[--ped--]

try lapping the probe to the barrel leade Louis