Is there a mechanically perfect springer?

[T 20]

1. The TX safety catch issue; having to yank on the u/l to set it. I have seen several rifles where you need to give a good yank to set the catch, others where you don't and the complete cocking action is very sweet and smooth. This can happen to new and old rifles alike. Surely the fault, and I believe it is a fault, could be / should be engineered out at the production stage.

Funny you should mention that, Phil.

I've recently been looking into this problem when I worked on my HW35 fitted with a TX latchrod and firmly believe it is a manufacturing fault --- there is also a very simple DIY cure using a Dremmel.

I'll try to get some pictures taken of how to cure the problem and post them later.





All the best Mick

[Phil Russell]

Funny you should mention that, Phil.

I've recently been looking into this problem when I worked on my HW35 fitted with a TX latchrod and firmly believe it is a manufacturing fault --- there is also a very simple DIY cure using a Dremmel.

I'll try to get some pictures taken of how to cure the problem and post them later.





All the best Mick

That would be excellent. There are 'cures' I came across that do not directly involve the latch rod. I attach a copy:

From BBS:
had this problem with mine. found it was the piston and spring guide touching removed half a mill from top of guide and it cocks as easy as you like now
This is good information. I found that the piston guide flange for a Prosport had to be no more than 2.8mm thick or the rifle would not cock but the antibear mechanism did engage. Tricky ....


And from BBS again:
Also appear to have sorted the safety by adding a little extra trigger tension via the screw under the guard, only got 15 shots or so off but set every time with a positive stroke, but not yanking it.
Literally about a quarter turn

I have not tried the trigger tension fix. I guess the first fix involving piston could be down to a latch rod issue ...

Cheers, Phil

[oldcurmudgeon]

Webley tomahawk and longbow 😊

[zephyr]

“Glass half empty”... perfection has not been achieved, anywhere, ever.

[Mach 1.5]

Venom Mach 1. Mach 1.5

[cooper_dan]

For me the Diana 65/66 is the closest I've got to the mechanicallly perfect springer. Really shocks people when they try it for the first time

[dvd]

For me the Diana 65/66 is the closest I've got to the mechanicallly perfect springer. Really shocks people when they try it for the first time

+1 to that.
Got to love the Giss system!
The rear piston's momentum just about eliminates the front piston's bounce via the rack and pinion. It also delivers a perfectly timed rearward thump to the cylinder's end-cap to counter act the front piston's forward thump as it hits the bottom of the cylinder.
Brilliant!

A close second would be the Anschutz Mod 220.
Superb modular trigger, self adjusting spring guide, pneumatic recoil damper, two counter-wound springs, fixed barrel, pellet loading aid, can be dismantled using just a screw driver.

What is more impressive is that both were produced in the early 1960's.

[TonyL]

Venom Mach 1. Mach 1.5

Got to agree.

Although I've never had the first hand pleasure, one can only think that it would be perfick.

Must admit, though, never had an issue with any HW. And my TX has been fine in the safety department, although I have tried others which were very fickle. I could only imagine that my 300S would be pretty good but would only ever consider stripping if needs be.

[T 20]

I'll try to get some pictures taken of how to cure the problem and post them later.

This is what I've found after many hours of staring at a CD unit and latchrod and wondering why an LGV latchrod works better than a TX latchrod in the same unit.

The rear of the TX latchrod has a flat face on it whereas the LGV latchrod has a pip on it :-

image.jpeg


Now the cocking position for the CD latchrod and top sear looks like this :-

image.jpeg


Most of the way through setting the trigger Sears the latchrod is touching the top sear at point "A", when the top sear gets near to latching the latchrod switches to touching at point "B" so losing all mechanical advantage.
The LGV latchrod having a central pip on it switches from hitting at point "A" to hitting halfway between points "A" and "B" when nearing latching.

My simple fix is to dremmel out the back of the top sear from the midpoint between points "A" and "B" to the bottom of the hook so eliminating any contact at point "B" altogether.

I've tried to show the bit I remove with a dotted line :-

image.jpeg


All the best Mick

[FPoole]

Just the opposite problem with my LGU piston in my TX. The factory piston works perfect and the LGU needs a bit of a bump sometimes. Always felt a little extra meat was needed where the tip of the top sear presses on the top of the second sear. As it presses down on sear 2, it pulls sear 2 forward and allows the safety to pop free. Seems to me that it needs to touch the second sear a little sooner in the cocking stroke. In the end, I really don't care if the safety sets or not, but it would be better that it work perfectly.

[Scott.]

I would have thought that most of not all of the quality branded springers were mechanically perfect on paper...
(Otherwise the so-called engineer who designed it is a total walloper)

That would of course have been before the bean counters forced economical compromises into the equation and undid all their hard work

[Carl2]

I would have thought that most of not all of the quality branded springers were mechanically perfect on paper...
(Otherwise the so-called engineer who designed it is a total walloper)

That would of course have been before the bean counters forced economical compromises into the equation and undid all their hard work

I agree that's why I cannot fathom out why Beeman are still selling that daft rifle that fires 2 shots at the same time. I thought I may buy one just for a laugh but any test shows just how hopeless this rifle is.

[cooper_dan]

I would have thought that most of not all of the quality branded springers were mechanically perfect on paper...
(Otherwise the so-called engineer who designed it is a total walloper)

That would of course have been before the bean counters forced economical compromises into the equation and undid all their hard work

An engineer's job is basically managing compromises to produce a product with the desired cost/performance/weight/durability etc.
We don't get to design 'perfect' products, with possibly the exception of F1 but even they are working to rules.

If there is a 'perfect' design it would have to be an individual's pet project from the outset. And even then it would never be perfect because there are ALWAYS compromises to be made

[nurek]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Whiscombe?

It's mechanically perfect with its two pistons cancelling out recoil and it has the best trigger in the business.

[cooper_dan]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Whiscombe?

It's mechanically perfect with its two pistons cancelling out recoil and it has the best trigger in the business.

Depends on your definition of perfect.
The way a whiscome works with a gear rack on each side of the gear will create a slight twisting moment around the vertical axis (i.e twist left or right as you are holding it). Due to the centre of gravity of each piston being offset to one side of the cylinder axis.

Is it noticeable? Probably not
Is it 'perfect'? No