Lightweight cylinder HW 100 carbine recommendation

[Bladerunner too]

As stated - it was a club member and friend. It was sold 'as new' and tested and certainly not a mate in a shed. The site was e#bay.



The one I mentioned failed at 150 BAR on the FIRST fill.

Your info is still a little vague if you don`t mind me saying, in the interest of safety could you not put up a link or the seller, i`m sure if that was my purchase i would as i wouldnt want someone to be injured,

[I. J.]

Your info is still a little vague if you don`t mind me saying, in the interest of safety could you not put up a link or the seller, i`m sure if that was my purchase i would as i wouldnt want someone to be injured,

I dont mind you saying. and it is vague.
If it was MY cylinder I would be screaming from the tops of the roofs but it wasn't. It was a well established and very regular club members who is also a friend and very trustworthy. He is also not a member of this or any other internet gun forum.
All I am saying is beware of cheap cylinders purchased new off e#ay.

[Bladerunner too]

I dont mind you saying. and it is vague.
If it was MY cylinder I would be screaming from the tops of the roofs but it wasn't. It was a well established and very regular club members who is also a friend and very trustworthy. He is also not a member of this or any other internet gun forum.
All I am saying is beware of cheap cylinders purchased new off e#ay.

Ok you you have a valid point, thank you for your comments.

[mikec4]

I dont mind you saying. and it is vague.
If it was MY cylinder I would be screaming from the tops of the roofs but it wasn't. It was a well established and very regular club members who is also a friend and very trustworthy. He is also not a member of this or any other internet gun forum.
All I am saying is beware of cheap cylinders purchased new off e#ay.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was also there and I endorse all of I. J. 's comments throughout his posts.

[GrahamHenderson]

Thanks for the replies.

Nobody here having experience with the Fenton and Rat Works cylinders?
I don't want to spend more than 200/250 quids for titanium or V-Mach tubes...

as far as i am aware the V-Mach tubes are not for carbines

[rgc_swanseaARC]

I know I have already posted my opinion.... But, an extra £50 or £100,even if it means waiting a bit and saving, or option 2, no hand..... There is only one answer!

The titanium tube is vastly superior to the others, handled over 700 bar without exploding, some of the aluminium ones are going pop at sub 200 bar... Its not worth the risk in my opinion.

[hareng]

Your info is still a little vague if you don`t mind me saying, in the interest of safety could you not put up a link or the seller, i`m sure if that was my purchase i would as i wouldnt want someone to be injured,

Quite right they should be hung drawn and quartered.
Not only the user injured but also everyone else around in the car or out.

[Amac]

The shooter who had the unfortunate experience with the "splitting" air cylinder is a close friend of mine. He is not a beginner with little knowledge of correctly charging air cylinders, but a veteran shooter who just fancied a lighter HW100.
I am sure we can all imagine what it must feel like to have that amount of pressure suddenly vent to atmosphere while holding it in your hand for a charge. In addition to an underpants change, he suffered numbing of his fingers and in my opinion was very lucky not to lose them. At least it split cleanly. I also hate to think of the outcome should the cylinder have turned into shrapnel rather than the clean split. I couldn't believe it when shown the offending cylinder.
Hopefully this item was a rogue. There again, it might not be.
Personally, this will mean, for me anyway, that I will be keeping with the original manufacturers specification for a guns air cylinder. Steel might be heavy, but I haven't heard of one suffering catastrophic damage like this one. I can remember talking to Shaun at I.S.P about the amount of pressure one of his titanium air cylinders was able to withstand, 400 bar plus on testing and still retaining integrity. Obviously then, a correctly manufactured titanium cylinder has the ability to take our normal 200 bar ish pressures without turning into a bomb.
I think that the problem has everything to do with the manufacturing process, obviously. I am not a structural engineer, but from this point I would be very careful about purchasing any none standard pressure vessel. This is unfortunate for those companies who do manufacture high quality and trustworthy cylinders, but, for me, I would never now take any risk.

Finally, this is a serious reminder to all of us who may have become blase about the continual use of highly pressurised air. We all know that our air filling and pressure vessels need to be treated with care and that the slow filling of cylinders is best practice.

Andy

[I. J.]

Finally, this is a serious reminder to all of us who may have become blase about the continual use of highly pressurised air. We all know that our air filling and pressure vessels need to be treated with care and that the slow filling of cylinders is best practice.

Andy

Thanks for clarifying the above incident Andy (hes from the North ya knows! ) .

Personally I fear there is a danger of future strict legislation over the use of highly pressurised air in our sport if there is a serious accident.

ATB
Ian

[Goatofmendez]

You also have to remember when these Aluminium cylinders are advertised they will say "Aerospace Grade Aluminium" or "graded" which is a marketing ploy. The grade is 6082 T6, nothing special.

Aerospace/Aircraft grade aluminum refers generally in the UK to the alloy 6082 T6 (6061 T6 in the USA), ironically airframes are actually made of 7075 T6.
6082 is common or garden Aluminium that most people use for more or less everything, got a knob on your hifi, yep thats 6082, fishing rest, 6082.

One of these sellers even touts that they have been stess tested to 650 bar several times and suffered no deformation of any kind, which is an absolute out and out joke.

Using Barlows formula a 37mm tube with a 3.5mm wall the deformation pressure is 473 bar and the burst pressure is 548 bar.

Grade 2 Titanium (one of the softest versions) has a deformation pressure of 643 bar and a burst pressure of 813 bar

Grade 5 Titanium (the most common) has a deformation pressure of 965 bar and a burst pressure of 1040 bar

Barlows Formula:
The formula is expressed as P=2St/D

where:
P = pressure
t = nominal wall thickness
D = outside Diameter in inches
S = (Material Strength) allowable stress in psi, which depends on the pressure being determined utilizing Yield or Tensile depending on what is trying to be determined

If you are doing it on a computer or calculator, making sure you observe standard operator precedence BODMAS when I was at school:
P = (2 * S * T) / D

[spartan]

Thanks for clarifying the above incident Andy (hes from the North ya knows! ) .

Personally I fear there is a danger of future strict legislation over the use of highly pressurised air in our sport if there is a serious accident.

ATB
Ian

Well there probably will be if people continue making crap like that, it will only take one person to get seriously injured and its game over.

[Luftgewehr100]

I never ever expected my thread going this direction...

On my Steyr LG100 I am using the original aluminium cylinder for years without
any problems therefore I thought it couldn't be a big deal of changing my heavy
HW100 cylinder to a lightweight one.

Perhaps it's easier to stay with the good old Weihrauch quality.

Also I don't believe the 224g of the complete Fenton carbine cylinder. My
silencer is heavier

[Bladerunner too]

You also have to remember when these Aluminium cylinders are advertised they will say "Aerospace Grade Aluminium" or "graded" which is a marketing ploy. The grade is 6082 T6, nothing special.

Aerospace/Aircraft grade aluminum refers generally in the UK to the alloy 6082 T6 (6061 T6 in the USA), ironically airframes are actually made of 7075 T6.
6082 is common or garden Aluminium that most people use for more or less everything, got a knob on your hifi, yep thats 6082, fishing rest, 6082.

One of these sellers even touts that they have been stess tested to 650 bar several times and suffered no deformation of any kind, which is an absolute out and out joke.

Using Barlows formula a 37mm tube with a 3.5mm wall the deformation pressure is 473 bar and the burst pressure is 548 bar.

Grade 2 Titanium (one of the softest versions) has a deformation pressure of 643 bar and a burst pressure of 813 bar

Grade 5 Titanium (the most common) has a deformation pressure of 965 bar and a burst pressure of 1040 bar

Barlows Formula:
The formula is expressed as P=2St/D

where:
P = pressure
t = nominal wall thickness
D = outside Diameter in inches
S = (Material Strength) allowable stress in psi, which depends on the pressure being determined utilizing Yield or Tensile depending on what is trying to be determined

If you are doing it on a computer or calculator, making sure you observe standard operator precedence BODMAS when I was at school:
P = (2 * S * T) / D

I have no idea what you are talking about, Actually i do, be it with limited knowledge .. Wonderful information.

[spartan]

I never ever expected my thread going this direction...

On my Steyr LG100 I am using the original aluminium cylinder for years without
any problems therefore I thought it couldn't be a big deal of changing my heavy
HW100 cylinder to a lightweight one.

Perhaps it's easier to stay with the good old Weihrauch quality.

Also I don't believe the 224g of the complete Fenton carbine cylinder. My
silencer is heavier

Well there's nothing wrong with trying to reduce the weight, as long as what your replacing it with is safe, and looking at the state of that tube it looks anything but, i personally dont believe there claims of testing to 650 bar, and why would you do that, unless testing to destruction, normal procedure of testing is to a third above working pressure, so around 350 bar maximum, all over pressurising will do is induce stress potentially weakening the cylinder, which could have happened in this case, if it had been tested to 650 bar. From my experience of pressure cylinders on pcps, every cylinder issue i've heard off involves aluminium cylinders, never steel or titanium, tells you something!!

[NickG]

A very interesting and informative thread , I too have been looking at aftermarket cylinders , as I am constructing an ally field target stock for my hw100, its a carbine , and I only get 56 shots from it , which is a bit close to the wind for a 40 shot course , I really only need a higher shot count, but like the length of the carbine .
My thoughts were to utilise an already proven air cylinder such as the FX, but cant find where to get one from .