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Thread: Lightweight cylinder HW 100 carbine recommendation

  1. #46
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    rgc_swanseaARC is offline He's not the Stig,,,He's the Stig's Welsh cousin
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickG View Post
    A very interesting and informative thread , I too have been looking at aftermarket cylinders , as I am constructing an ally field target stock for my hw100, its a carbine , and I only get 56 shots from it , which is a bit close to the wind for a 40 shot course , I really only need a higher shot count, but like the length of the carbine .
    My thoughts were to utilise an already proven air cylinder such as the FX, but cant find where to get one from .
    You can get an fx tube from ASI directly, but you will need an adaptor for the tube to fit the hw block.
    Theoben TTR1 .177, Steven B Blue/Grey Laminate Stock, Nutshot Mod, Hawke Sidewinder 10x42 Tac IR
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  2. #47
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    You can by the adaptor from here for FX cylinder https://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shop/...inder-adaptor/

  3. #48
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    Well after reading this most informative thread I’ve come to the conclusion that I will not in any way shape or form buy an after market cylinder for my HW100KT. Here’s me almost ready to press buy on evil bay sod that for a laugh.

    Thank you you may have saved some one from serious injury.

  4. #49
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    Dear Air Gun Shooting community

    As we supply this item we like to take part in this thread to answer any questions and myths that seem to be posted here.

    The tube that failed may have been deformed,weakened due too either shipping, or the ends were fitted using a vice. Thus resulting in crushing of the cylinder when the tubes ends were fitted. The valve end should be fitted using a 8mm bar in the fill port, and a socket/spanner for the valve end. It should never be tightened in a vice. After this problem was brought to light we upgraded the fitting instructions, placing the fitting sheet around the tube, so this information could not be missed, instead of inside the packaging. Also the shipping has been upgraded to avoid any damage in transit.

    We have a testing certificate from a certified testing facility of 650 bar, with rapid evacuation, and rapid refill in a 10 times cycle, with no deformation over a quantity of tubes. This is the most extreme testing you can have, as advised from the testing centre. As you are no doubt aware filling slowly,and exhausting slowly should be done in a controlled manner. The testing house inspect items on a daily basis (as you can well imagine). We have been in contact with them and the manufacturer.

    In light of many potential factors of building up the unit, eg: having correct tools, fitting experience, and indeed testing capabilities once the unit has been built by the end user we are now not selling the "tube only option" to the general public. This option will only be available to accredited outlets that specialise in this field.
    With over 100 tubes sold this is the only known failure. We have had a return with marks on the tube, that occurred in transit. We asked the buyer to not use the item, to return, and we replaced the tube. Upgraded packaging, and shipping has resolved this issue.

    We fill every tube to 260 bar in house before shipping, and then step back to 100 bar over night too check for leaks.

    We take the highest level of care, and caution from manufacture, testing, storage, packaging, and shipping to produce a safe, reliable Fenton product for the end user. We welcome any feedback from the shooting community to improve our product. Any feedback received we will certainly take it on board to help future shooters and current customers.


    Best Regards
    Fenton Shooting Supplies

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton Shooting View Post
    Dear Air Gun Shooting community

    As we supply this item we like to take part in this thread to answer any questions and myths that seem to be posted here.

    The tube that failed may have been deformed,weakened due too either shipping, or the ends were fitted using a vice. Thus resulting in crushing of the cylinder when the tubes ends were fitted. The valve end should be fitted using a 8mm bar in the fill port, and a socket/spanner for the valve end. It should never be tightened in a vice. After this problem was brought to light we upgraded the fitting instructions, placing the fitting sheet around the tube, so this information could not be missed, instead of inside the packaging. Also the shipping has been upgraded to avoid any damage in transit.

    We have a testing certificate from a certified testing facility of 650 bar, with rapid evacuation, and rapid refill in a 10 times cycle, with no deformation over a quantity of tubes. This is the most extreme testing you can have, as advised from the testing centre. As you are no doubt aware filling slowly,and exhausting slowly should be done in a controlled manner. The testing house inspect items on a daily basis (as you can well imagine). We have been in contact with them and the manufacturer.

    In light of many potential factors of building up the unit, eg: having correct tools, fitting experience, and indeed testing capabilities once the unit has been built by the end user we are now not selling the "tube only option" to the general public. This option will only be available to accredited outlets that specialise in this field.
    With over 100 tubes sold this is the only known failure. We have had a return with marks on the tube, that occurred in transit. We asked the buyer to not use the item, to return, and we replaced the tube. Upgraded packaging, and shipping has resolved this issue.

    We fill every tube to 260 bar in house before shipping, and then step back to 100 bar over night too check for leaks.

    We take the highest level of care, and caution from manufacture, testing, storage, packaging, and shipping to produce a safe, reliable Fenton product for the end user. We welcome any feedback from the shooting community to improve our product. Any feedback received we will certainly take it on board to help future shooters and current customers.


    Best Regards
    Fenton Shooting Supplies
    Are you confirming the split tube is yours then? If you are then your certificate does not seem to be worth the paper it is printed on. Again IF the tube is yours I would be considering contacting your certicate house for comment.

    Also could you confirm Grade of Aluminium you use and wall thickness.

    thanks
    Goat

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatofmendez View Post
    Are you confirming the split tube is yours then? If you are then your certificate does not seem to be worth the paper it is printed on. Again IF the tube is yours I would be considering contacting your certicate house for comment.

    Also could you confirm Grade of Aluminium you use and wall thickness.

    thanks
    Goat
    Dear Goat

    I have contacted the manufacturer for specification clarity.

    Your figures state a wall thickness of 3.5mm in fact it is 4.3mm wall
    Material tensile strength is 245 Minimum MPa
    Using Barlow Formula you can see a 650 bar without deformation is easily achieved. We did not test to destruction as 650 bar is over double that the tube is rated at. Hope this helps allay any concerns . Any questions get back to me and i can contact the manufacturer further for you.

    If the tube that we are talking about is indeed one of ours as this is all hear say though general conciseness and feel from this thread is that it is. How the tube split? is a good question!

    Regarding your comment on the test house results.Why would we question a expert in there field in their test results? Who provided full certification? We are not experts in this field are you?

  7. #52
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    Look down inside the tube against some light with ends off for us to see if it separated along the inner seam/weld.


    Weihrauch used to tighten up the ends like stupid tight in the factory.Probably that’s why people think it must to be done tight like crazy... but o rings do not deal/work that way.

    The truth is the ends can be left quite loose, once pressurised you can’t undo the ends anyway. It’s fine to have it hand tight definitely easer to go in again later if need to for slow leaks etc.

    If you want high shotcount buy a different gun, there is a multitude of choices these days. As I said put the funds towards a different modern make instead, will benefit more
    Take care
    Last edited by krisko; 18-12-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton Shooting View Post
    We welcome any feedback from the shooting community to improve our product. Any feedback received we will certainly take it on board to help future shooters and current customers.
    I appreciate much You answering in this thread and express Your position.

    I now ordered a complete carbine cylinder on amazon.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...RVBDHM05&psc=1

    I will test Your cylinder on my HW100KT and post my experience in this forum after christmas.
    Last edited by Luftgewehr100; 18-12-2018 at 07:56 PM.

  9. #54
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    Does anyone know what happened to the (blown up)cylinder, has it been sent off anywhere for inspection,investigation ect.
    1 Rapid+sentinal n/v, 1 HW100+ Mamba lite

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luftgewehr100 View Post
    I appreciate much You answering in this thread and express Your position.

    I now ordered a complete carbine cylinder on amazon.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...RVBDHM05&psc=1

    I will test Your cylinder on my HW100KT and post my experience in this forum after christmas.
    Thank you for the custom Luftgewehr100

    Item Shipped today to you.
    We look forward to your review and experience with the item.
    Any issues problems feel free to contact us directly.

    Thank you for your support.

    Fenton Shooting

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner too View Post
    Does anyone know what happened to the (blown up)cylinder, has it been sent off anywhere for inspection,investigation ect.
    We have asked the question to the manufacture with the reply.
    On visual inspection if you can see vice marks on the diameter then a crushing force was used via a vice (most would use wood blocks so not to leave marks and damage the finish) so no marks would be visible.

    Over filling without viewing the customers own gauge they fitted and reading off the scale they would be reluctant as you can expect to give the supplier this. If looking for a refund on the item.

    Over tighting. As a previous poster has posted the standard cylinder supplied via Weihrauch the gauge end and valve end are usually very tight to remove giving the impression they should be tightened up to this high torque when refitting, high torque is not necessary as the air in the chamber will seal the fittings in place. High Torque can twist the cylinder and weaken its structure.

    Crossing of the threads Damaging the Valve / Gauge end when striping the old cylinder or corrosion resulting in the ends being very tight to screw up and using large amounts of torque. The thread would not be able to be checked when split open customers fittings/they would be reluctant as you can expect to give the supplier this. If looking for a refund on the item and aware they were hard to screw in.

    This is one the main reasons we have stopped selling the tube only option there is too many factors to go wrong, having the right tools / experience / and safe way to test the cylinder after being built is a risk we are not willing to take. We sell them to Gun shops that are qualified to take the task on. However we feel it is too dangerous. We would like to see other suppliers follow suit or offer a service where they can send the tube to be changed at there facility so it is correctly done and checked safely.

    Our complete cylinders are built tested to 260 bar in house before shipping, and then step back to 100 bar over night too check for leaks. Item will arrive to the customer with 100 bar present. If this is not the case then the tube should not be used due to damage in transport or a leaking issue. There is no need for the customer to take or alter anything on the cylinder and taking the cylinder apart can be detected by the manufacturer when sold as a complete unit.

    Hope in anyway this can help.

    Best Regards
    Fenton Shooting
    Last edited by Fenton Shooting; 19-12-2018 at 04:33 PM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton Shooting View Post
    Our complete cylinders are built tested to 260 bar in house before shipping, and then step back to 100 bar over night too check for leaks. Item will arrive to the customer with 100 bar present. If this is not the case then the tube should not be used due to damage in transport or a leaking issue.
    You ship them whilst pressurised to 100 BAR ?
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  13. #58
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    Thankyou,Fenton Shooting for the above reply, Although my post was not really directed to yourself`s (what happened to the tube) more to the (claimant) we all appreciate the comments about IF it had marks ect.
    1 Rapid+sentinal n/v, 1 HW100+ Mamba lite

  14. #59
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    I have just across this thread and am utterly horrified. The ratworks and Fenton aluminium cylinders look similar and appear to be aluminium versions of the HW cylinder but without the sections of reduced outer diameter and do not have the design weakness (fuse) of the A&M one. I agree with the various stress calculations that have been posted that show that pressures around 650bar are going to take the material up to its 0.2% proof stress and will leave it with a permanent set. If the alloy is 6082 T6, its burst stress is not much higher than its 0.2% proof stress.

    I'm not familiar with the testing requirements for pressure vessels, but surely we would expect the manufacturers to proof each cylinder sold to 1.5 times its working pressure (so 375bar if intended to be fitted with an internal reg) and conduct a hydraulic burst pressure test from a sample of each material batch.

    Another failure of the kind seen here is certainly going to alert the attention of the ban everything brigade.

  15. #60
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    I have got one of the older A&M cylinders, and found that without the barrel band the cylinder ‘bends’ so I took it off.

    as if I left it on at some point it would break away from the threads to the action weak point and fly away like a bazooka projectile!

    I don’t need that. Have not decided yet on what to do with it!
    I noticed it on the gap between the cylinder and barrel, NOT GOOD.

    Aluminium is cheap and easy to machine yes but poor material properties. Probably this also applies to those end cap bits you can buy, if it is made of Aluminium alloy. guys keep your barrel bands mounted.
    Last edited by krisko; 19-12-2018 at 07:23 PM.

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