What would have happened if BSA had....

[look no hands]

Breech pins instead of bolts! They saved PENNIES and lost the whole game! AND THEY ARE STILL DOING IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ffs!

Even the Commies were using bolts instead of pins on their rifle, even the poorest and the worst of the Commies, the Chinese and the Russians, THEY used them (probably because they slavishly stole their ideas from the Germans). But not BSA, the barrels can flap about in the breeze because they were only used with open sights on 15 yard garden ranges... no-one at BSA ever read AGW obviously.

Yep that's one failing they really should have done something about years ago, as for the Superstar trigger, I actually love that trigger and think it's better than the Rekord, I know it's not a proper two stager but all the ones I've ever used have always had a smooth, positive and very crisp let off.

I do wonder if HW would have gone down the same route as BMW did when they bought Rover and just robbed us of all the iconic names and models and then shut them down, I suppose in theory Gamo have kept BSA going but they don't really have much to show for it anymore, like you say Alistair, BSA could have kept the iconic Airsporter going but improved it beyond recognition and produced their own Prosport, instead they decided to keep a couple of the lower end models and then just mashed them into something the Chinese even laugh at, it wouldn't have been so bad if they had compensated for dropping the higher end models and put a load of good bits into the models they kept but they've just got worse.

Pete

[PhatMan]

Hello to All,

1970s BSA quality ???

Open up a 1970s BSA Airsporter, and you will see something that would ashame even the worst far Eastern manufacturer.

A crappy piston badly rolled from sheet, a basic & crappy trigger, a tap basically held in by the stock.

For a flagship rifle - absolute sh!te

The Japanese did not kill the British motor-cycle industry - it was moribund anyways - the Japanese just filled the vacuum, and filled them with motor-cycles you could actually ride instead of having to push them for miles when they broke down yet again.

My late Meridan Triumph Bonneville was appalling - it was much better after I had machined flat the base of the cylinders to stop it leaking oil, re-built the clutch so it actually worked properly, and re-balanced the crank, so it didn't wreck the bike from vibrations. A complete and utter crock of sh!te. Quality control ? I think Stevie Wonder would have done a much better job than those at Triumph or BSA

I won't even start on my ex-army BSA B40

Nostalgia comes with a free pair of rose tinted specs

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

[maximus]

Hello to All,

1970s BSA quality ???

Open up a 1970s BSA Airsporter, and you will see something that would ashame even the worst far Eastern manufacturer.

A crappy piston badly rolled from sheet, a basic & crappy trigger, a tap basically held in by the stock.

For a flagship rifle - absolute sh!te

The Japanese did not kill the British motor-cycle industry - it was moribund anyways - the Japanese just filled the vacuum, and filled them with motor-cycles you could actually ride instead of having to push them for miles when they broke down yet again.

My late Meridan Triumph Bonneville was appalling - it was much better after I had machined flat the base of the cylinders to stop it leaking oil, re-built the clutch so it actually worked properly, and re-balanced the crank, so it didn't wreck the bike from vibrations. A complete and utter crock of sh!te. Quality control ? I think Stevie Wonder would have done a much better job than those at Triumph or BSA

I won't even start on my ex-army BSA B40

Nostalgia comes with a free pair of rose tinted specs

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

Like button required!!

The Super Star was definitely BSA's best offering but since then they have gone backwards on their springers. They fail to appreciate that for anyone half interested in accuracy you need a decent trigger and on a springer it needs to be a proper two stage affair due to the amount of load it's holding back. Also a breech bolt as discussed with shims to act as bearings, Their springer sales are just trading on a name which won't last if what you produce is inferior to the cheaper competition. Its a shame webley couldn't keep going because their last offerings were probably the best engineered añ finished production air rifles ever. Too late I guess.

[Hsing-ee]

I do wonder if HW would have gone down the same route as BMW did when they bought Rover and just robbed us of all the iconic names and models and then shut them down,
Pete

The Rovers that were made when Honda were in charge were mostly very good cars, and the Rover 75 with the BMW engine was good too.

Thing was that the pure Honda versions of the Rover Hondas were just as good and cheaper, both made in the UK. So that wasn't going to work, unless you really liked the name Rover on your car. The BMW Rover was competing against the BMW so that didn't stand a chance either...

[Geezer]

The Rovers that were made when Honda were in charge were mostly very good cars, and the Rover 75 with the BMW engine was good too.

Thing was that the pure Honda versions of the Rover Hondas were just as good and cheaper, both made in the UK. So that wasn't going to work, unless you really liked the name Rover on your car. The BMW Rover was competing against the BMW so that didn't stand a chance either...

Let’s not forget the magnificent early 1980s Triumph Acclaim, the first of the “Leyland” Hondas. The perfect vehicle for trilby-wearing South coast pensioners to drive 1000 yards from their bungalow to the sea front at 15 mph and then sit there eating sarnies from Tupperware before driving home.

[Hsing-ee]

Let’s not forget the magnificent early 1980s Triumph Acclaim, the first of the “Leyland” Hondas. The perfect vehicle for trilby-wearing South coast pensioners to drive 1000 yards from their bungalow to the sea front at 15 mph and then sit there eating sarnies from Tupperware before driving home.

My friend's chiropodist Dad had one of these. It was boring looking but was a sporty little number. Of course I was biased as I grew up near the Cowley area of Oxford where these things were made, but they were really quite good cars and had a very spirited OHC 1300 cc engine. You can laugh, but it was like the Millenium Falcon compared to the poorly made Maxis Allegros and other botched nightmares that the factory had produced.

And from Wikipedia the ultimate 'acclaim'

'The Acclaim holds the record for the lowest percentage of warranty claims for a BL car.' ... probably because it was a Honda.

I only buy Hondas. Best engines, super reliable and you can maintain them with ordinary tools.

[TonyL]

And the Rover 213 that followed it was even better. Sharper handling and with a motor that just begged you to rev the bollocks off it!

[maximus]

Trouble with rover, and jaguar for that matter, was their styling. They couldn't get away from the "Chesterfield on wheels" thing. I'm talking the 75's and Jags prior to them being taken over in particular. Look what happened to jag once they made the xf's etc. Make Mercs look bland IMO.

[look no hands]

Trouble with rover, and jaguar for that matter, was their styling. They couldn't get away from the "Chesterfield on wheels" thing. I'm talking the 75's and Jags prior to them being taken over in particular. Look what happened to jag once they made the xf's etc. Make Mercs look bland IMO.

I actually liked the 75's styling but I am a traditionalist who likes chrome and walnut trim on cars but saying that I also like the MG versions as they where dechromed and everything colour coded to make them look more sporty.

Pete

[maximus]

I actually liked the 75's styling but I am a traditionalist who likes chrome and walnut trim on cars but saying that I also like the MG versions as they where dechromed and everything colour coded to make them look more sporty.

Pete

Well, I know we're off topic but the each to their own, I actually liked the last Jags, xjrs etc,. Mate had one which he payef £800 & odd quid for with an engine misfire. He sorted that and polished it up and it looked fabulous.

Anyway, back to slug guns, why on earth did webley not succeed in saving themselves with the longbow tomahawk etc??

[Muskett]

BSA would have gone the same way as BSF.

[English]

At least that explains what happened to BSF for me always wanted one but they were too costly as a poor apprentice at the time

[Muskett]

Webley had the Omega and Eclipse which still didn't have a trigger people demanded. By the time the Longbow arrived spring guns were old hat to the PCP.
That there are some springers sold is surprising and either top of their game or very price sensitive. For those sold they just aren't the cutting edge where its all happening. For pure simplicity they have merit but anyone getting serious will leave them behind and move on. They are bought now for something "different", the challenge even!

I still like them.

[Geezer]

Webley had the Omega and Eclipse which still didn't have a trigger people demanded. By the time the Longbow arrived spring guns were old hat to the PCP.
That there are some springers sold is surprising and either top of their game or very price sensitive. For those sold they just aren't the cutting edge where its all happening. For pure simplicity they have merit but anyone getting serious will leave them behind and move on. They are bought now for something "different", the challenge even!

I still like them.

This is true. And the Omega and Eclipse were more expensive than the equivalent HWs. Nuts.

As mostly a casual target shooter these days, classic springers are great. I get taken back to my youth, and I’m only competing against my last group. And they do force you to use good technique - I recall a really good early 90s Terry D article about how whenever he went a bit off the boil with his PCP (for other readers this was back when he was one of the top FT shooters) he would pick up his HW77 to refine his technique.

[Hsing-ee]

At least that explains what happened to BSF for me always wanted one but they were too costly as a poor apprentice at the time

I managed to get hold of a BSF B55 as a nostalgia buy. It's an interesting little rifle but by no means the awesome rifle that the Airgun World writers sometimes made it out to be. The main thing was that it produced a true 12 fpe in both calibres at a time when most other guns were only making about 10 fpe.

It is one of the most difficult springers to get good accuracy out of and as such it is an entertaining challenge. This is because of the light weight and fierce recoil, which means only the loosest grip will give good groups.

The best groups I got out of it were about twice that of an HW35 or similar, so I think the rifles were good hunters in the days when people thought that chest shots were OK.

One of the main problems with the rifle is that the trigger is not fully active like a Rekord or a CD, and this means that the heavier the mainspring, the harder the pull. I put a soft unspaced spring in mine and it became very accurate and easy to use, but the thing was only doing 7 fpe so you might as well buy an HW30S.

In short, you didn't miss anything. A BSA Mercury would have performed as well or better in terms of accuracy, and not far off the power. BSFs were good in their prime i.e. the 1950s and early 1960s but the Kings of the 70s, the HW35 Export and the Feinwerkbau Sport were definitely superior arms.