What would have happened if BSA had....

[norris]

Webley had the Omega and Eclipse which still didn't have a trigger people demanded. By the time the Longbow arrived spring guns were old hat to the PCP.
That there are some springers sold is surprising and either top of their game or very price sensitive. For those sold they just aren't the cutting edge where its all happening. For pure simplicity they have merit but anyone getting serious will leave them behind and move on. They are bought now for something "different", the challenge even!

I still like them.

What was wrong with the trigger?

My Eclispe was one of my most accurate air rifles I have ever owned or used!

[norris]

People forget as most cars in the seventies and early eighties weren’t that good.
Italian cars rotten over night and only went when they felt like it.
Ok Japanese cars we’re reliable but they rotted quite quickly.
VW’s,BMW’s weren’t that fantastic either,nor were French cars.

Isn’t the Rover 75 still in production as the MG6?

Like most things including air rifles have improved over time, technology has move on.
Ok corners have been cut to reduce the cost but generally things have improved.

HW’s have there problems such as cocking links on the 35,99 and the pop up breech on the 57.

I remember “back in the day” HW35E’s suffered from barrel droop.

[Geezer]

I managed to get hold of a BSF B55 as a nostalgia buy. It's an interesting little rifle but by no means the awesome rifle that the Airgun World writers sometimes made it out to be. The main thing was that it produced a true 12 fpe in both calibres at a time when most other guns were only making about 10 fpe.

It is one of the most difficult springers to get good accuracy out of and as such it is an entertaining challenge. This is because of the light weight and fierce recoil, which means only the loosest grip will give good groups.

The best groups I got out of it were about twice that of an HW35 or similar, so I think the rifles were good hunters in the days when people thought that chest shots were OK.

One of the main problems with the rifle is that the trigger is not fully active like a Rekord or a CD, and this means that the heavier the mainspring, the harder the pull. I put a soft unspaced spring in mine and it became very accurate and easy to use, but the thing was only doing 7 fpe so you might as well buy an HW30S.

In short, you didn't miss anything. A BSA Mercury would have performed as well or better in terms of accuracy, and not far off the power. BSFs were good in their prime i.e. the 1950s and early 1960s but the Kings of the 70s, the HW35 Export and the Feinwerkbau Sport were definitely superior arms.

What killed BSF was that in about 1980 their U.K. distributor, Norman May, went bust, with the U.K. being a big market for BSF guns. BSF promptly folded, were re-bought, staggered on for a year a two, then went bust again and were bought out cheaply by HW, as much to destroy a competitor, IMHO, as for any other reason.

In the airgun market of 1980, FT did not exist as a force (it was being invented in a pub garden). Apart from 10M match, the high-end market was springer sporters for pest control from barn ranges to 25 yards.

The 54 was old and clunky, but favoured by some. Overrated. The 60 and 70 were good, but not fashionable.

The 55 was, and remains, a very appealing and attractive bit of kit. 6lbs weight, unscoped; 41” length; full 12 ft-lbs power.

Nothing offered a similar combination of features in the late 70s.

The FWB was a pound heavier and 3” longer, and more expensive, though a much better rifle, all round.

The Webley Vulcan (again, slightly heavier and longer) only arrived in mid-79.

The huge long Diana 45 in 1978. The Diana 35 was a bit heavier, a bit longer, and less powerful.

HW had the 35, not yet the 80. The 35 is, er, meh, marmite.. OK, maybe quite good, but the BSF made the same or greater power while being much shorter and lighter.

I am a definite BSF55 fan. It handles well, and shoots well, and the not very good trigger is no worse than most of its 1970s competitors.

Of course, airguns have got better since the 55 was introduced in the 1950s or 60s (does anyone know for sure?), but for about ten years it was arguably the best short to medium range pest control rifle around.

I agree it’s hold sensitive. But it’s not unique in that. It’s a light powerful b/b springer.

[look no hands]

Isn’t the Rover 75 still in production as the MG6?

Nothing like the 75, the MG6 it's basically made in China and then shipped over here in kit form and nailed together in a factory in Oxford.

I think the only Rover/MG based car to survive the sell off was the MG-TF sports car which was still being made (not sure if it still is) in a small factory by a bunch of English enthusiasts who obtained all the original factory equipment (I'm sure that's what I read once).

Pete

[PhatMan]

Hello to All,

In size etc, the 0.177" Wischo (BSF) S55 I had in the late 1970s was very similar to the current HW99S.

If my S55 had had a 'better' trigger, it would have been, for me at the time, almost perfect as a hunting rifle - a true and proper 'pocket-rocket'.

Polishing & burnishing the trigger sears with moly paste improved the '55s trigger quite a bit, and it ended up a safe 3.5 lb, and 'sort of' crisp

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[Hsing-ee]

I want to get a BSF again now. I think it would have to be the S70 with the heaviest stock.

[norris]

Nothing like the 75, the MG6 it's basically made in China and then shipped over here in kit form and nailed together in a factory in Oxford.

I think the only Rover/MG based car to survive the sell off was the MG-TF sports car which was still being made (not sure if it still is) in a small factory by a bunch of English enthusiasts who obtained all the original factory equipment (I'm sure that's what I read once).

Pete

Production of the MG-TF has ceased as far as I know and I don’t think they do much at all at the UK factory.


Regarding the 75, a couple of cut and paste jobs from the internet-


But, the 75 has had a strange and surprisingly long afterlife in China, where it was produced as the MG7 and in facelifted form as the Roewe 750, this version still available today some 17 years after the original 75 first appeared.
- [ ]
The first generation MG 6 was initially announced in April 2009 at the Shanghai Auto Show, as a five-door GT/fastback[2] and in October 2010 at Shanghai Expo as a four-door notchback saloon model.[3] It is derived from the Roewe 550, hence being distantly related to the Rover 75, sharing its front subframe.[4]
The MG6 sold below expectations in the United Kingdom, eventually being dropped from the range there in 2016, whilst continuing in other markets.

[elanmac]

What no one has mentioned so far is the main reason for Germany and Japan taking over the car and motorcycle market.
After WW2 the losers were given the latest state of the art machine tools to help their recovery. I worked at the Villiers in the late 1950s and we were still using prewar machinery that had been running 24 hrs a day during the war. Our machines were not as accurate as the new machines that were given to our competitors. I suppose this also applied to BSA and Webley.
Another handicap we had was millitant unions.
Mac

[look no hands]

What no one has mentioned so far is the main reason for Germany and Japan taking over the car and motorcycle market.
After WW2 the losers were given the latest state of the art machine tools to help their recovery. I worked at the Villiers in the late 1950s and we were still using prewar machinery that had been running 24 hrs a day during the war. Our machines were not as accurate as the new machines that were given to our competitors. I suppose this also applied to BSA and Webley.
Another handicap we had was millitant unions.
Mac

I said something along the lines of this a few weeks ago on another thread.

Pete

[PhatMan]

Hello to All,

I seem to remember reading some Moons ago, that we were being punished by the US for voting in a Labour goverment just after WW2.

So we got none of the immediate post war aid/assistance that Europe got from the US.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[look no hands]

Hello to All,

I seem to remember reading some Moons ago, that we were being punished by the US for voting in a Labour goverment just after WW2.

So we got none of the immediate post war aid/assistance that Europe got from the US.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

At the end of the day it's thanks to Adolf Hitler that this once great country, that once went out and conquered half the planet has been reduced to what it is now because we've never really properly recovered from the cost of the second world war.

Pete

[Beads]

What no one has mentioned so far is the main reason for Germany and Japan taking over the car and motorcycle market.
After WW2 the losers were given the latest state of the art machine tools to help their recovery. I worked at the Villiers in the late 1950s and we were still using prewar machinery that had been running 24 hrs a day during the war. Our machines were not as accurate as the new machines that were given to our competitors. I suppose this also applied to BSA and Webley.
Another handicap we had was millitant unions.
Mac

You are more than partially correct in you statement.
After the war much of Europe's infrastructure was in rubble so they got to start afresh. Whereas our's was only partially destroyed so we rebuilt those that were damaged to what we were used to.
Hence we now have railway bridges that are coming up to 200 years old that are replaced on a like for like basis, due to lack of money and we now have the problem of bridges that are to small for the latest agricultural machinery.
We also suffered from lack of foresight. When presented with the plans for a family car as repayment for war dues, the army major promptly dismissed it as rubbish and that no family would want a car of that design - the car was the VW Beetle and look how long that ran for!
We were also sold a dunce by various unions and the Labour Party. In '46 when the parade of all allies was taking place the then Labour government didn't allow the Free Polish army to march in the parade for fear of upsetting the Russians and the unions used fear to ensure people went out on strike. As they did in Arbroath where my gran was threatened with violence if my grandad didn't stop work. This worked so well that the factory closed down less than 2yrs later! Hence I will never vote Labour.

I'll get off my soap box now before I get shoved off.

Ed