Fitting sights to Vintage gun

[Argonaut]

I have a mint condition Relum Tornado
Underlever loading single shot 0.22
I will admit this is old ... I bought it from Kays Catalogue for £21 back in 1973 ... so it is now 45 yrs old.
It still works very well ... shows that if you look after mechanical items they can last.
It has the rather simple parallel Vee slots for mounting a scope ... the Relum mounting slots was vaunted at the time as being an improvement on the BSA Airsporter, as it was longer ... meaning you could slide sights fwd or back over quite a difference to accommodate correct eye relief.
After not being used for last 20 years .... unboxed it again to join a friend who bought his first rifle (at more than 20 times what I paid) and it still works fine, 0.22 pellets still giving reasonable grouping at 30m
However the telescopic sight was always pretty poor item.
The friend after 2 weeks upgraded his sight, and has given me for free his sight a "PAO Topaz PRE-MOUNT MIL-DOT 2-9 x50 IR Scope" with 9/11 mounts
More than 3x the price of my rifle & scope combined.
I can just about get it to fit on the Relum, but it is not what I would consider a good fit into the Vee grooves.
Is there any adapter (or change of mount) I can fit to allow this scope to be used.

[MartynB]

Have you measured the width of the dovetails ? Wondering if non-standard size

[Argonaut]

The dovetails were standard as of time of manufacture - I know as a group of us had various rifles, Relum & BSA and the sights were all swappable.

The 'new sight' is correct width ...
The issue being is that the part of the clamp than goes 'in the vee' on original sight were a pressed steel fitting probably 20 SWG (1mm or so thick) ,,, on new sight they are a machined items, and just a bit too thick to fit fully in the vee.

[Hsing-ee]

It seems to have the same shallow grooves as the Airsporter was cursed with for a number of years.

The mounts may be modified to for the grooves better by careful machining or even filing of the jaws of the mounts.

By removing metal from the bottom of the jaw, usually by running the flat base of the jaw over a flat file or oxide paper on a true plate, you can reduce the thickness of the tip of the jaw and it will seat further in to the groove and provide better purchase. The angle at the end of the jaw when viewed side on will look 'sharper'.

I would get hold of a one-piece mount and file it down until it fits well. Unless the scope is firmly fixed to the Relum it will be liable to creep and you will lose zero all the time.

Best thing to do with a Relum is to replace the mainspring with one from a BSA Meteor and throw away the awful inner spring & replace it with a floating or fixed guide.

Good luck.

[Argonaut]

It seems to have the same shallow grooves as the Airsporter was cursed with for a number of years.

The mounts may be modified to for the grooves better by careful machining or even filing of the jaws of the mounts.
>>
Best thing to do with a Relum is to replace the mainspring with one from a BSA Meteor and throw away the awful inner spring & replace it with a floating or fixed guide.

.

I contacted a couple of on-line firms, seems no one produces a sight mount to suit Relum if Relum is same as airsporter fitting, there must be thousands of customers out there - would have thought someone would have down this.

On the spring .... Protek advise that fitting single spring is not best option, the 2nd smaller concentric spring gave a much reduced recoil & damping, putting in single spring will not gain any increase in ft/lb output, just make it harder to cock.

Maybe I'll just strip and clean.

[wild boar]

could you get a very low frofile 11mm or 12mm - best measure them -to picatinny adaptor and machine the mount to a sharp edge to fit into the shallow dovetails
once tightened on just leave it on , the mark1 airsporter has none of these problems

[Argonaut]

Problem leaving it on as it won't fit in gun sleeve.

[Hsing-ee]

I contacted a couple of on-line firms, seems no one produces a sight mount to suit Relum if Relum is same as airsporter fitting, there must be thousands of customers out there - would have thought someone would have down this.

On the spring .... Protek advise that fitting single spring is not best option, the 2nd smaller concentric spring gave a much reduced recoil & damping, putting in single spring will not gain any increase in ft/lb output, just make it harder to cock.

Maybe I'll just strip and clean.

The rifle was designed to take the early .22 rimfire and airgun scopes, generally 4x20.

The one that fits well if you can find one is the Nikko Stirling Tiara 4x28 scope, which is a 7/8" tube job. There is one on the auction site at the moment, item number 44316d2922.
The Nikko Stirling 4x20 works as well. They have the sharp scope clamps, but re-facing the modern scope mounts will work just as well.

Protek clearly have their own ideas about the Relum, most experienced tuners including BTDT on here will recommend a single spring and a spring guide. The double spring system becomes coil-bound and adds vibration to the system for no benefit. The only way it would be more difficult to cock is if you fitted an over-powered spring, any single spring can be cut down to give the right power.

I've never heard of someone taking off their scope to put their rifle in a sleeve, generally people buy a bigger case rather than re-mount and re-zero the rifle every time they want to use it.

http://freepdfhosting.com/530a0af6b4.pdf

[wild boar]

i meant leave the picatinny rail on , i would be only a few milimetres high then if you need to take the scope off that ,its a few seconds job , also you might stand a chance of keeping zero with that system when you put the scope back on

[Argonaut]

The rifle was designed to take the early .22 rimfire and airgun scopes, generally 4x20.
http://freepdfhosting.com/530a0af6b4.pdf

Original scope was Relum 4 x15 - Still have that and it works, but as per OP I have been given a far better scope for free
I appreciate you recommendation for the Nikko Stirling Tiara 4x28 scope ... but I am not going to buy a scope when been given a new £80 scope for free

but re-facing the modern scope mounts will work just as well.
http://freepdfhosting.com/530a0af6b4.pdf

Any suggestions on how ?

Protek clearly have their own ideas about the Relum, most experienced tuners including BTDT on here will recommend a single spring and a spring guide.
http://freepdfhosting.com/530a0af6b4.pdf

The reason I can find for the inner spring was to damp down vibration and reduce recoil. I can find people selling single spring but no mention of an inner guide ? do you know where these come from ?

I've never heard of someone taking off their scope to put their rifle in a sleeve, generally people buy a bigger case rather than re-mount and re-zero the rifle every time they want to use it.
http://freepdfhosting.com/530a0af6b4.pdf

Simply won't fit in sleeve with scope fitted - so no choice. Sleeve & Rifle 45 yrs old - new sleeve would cost more than rifle did.

[Argonaut]

OK ...look like this has a solution.

Charlie at “the shooting party.uk” Who sell the PAO Topaz sight, has solved this previously.
Solution is a pair of Weaver/Picatinny quick release mounts with Spring loaded Snap-fit dovetail converters.

[Argonaut]

i meant leave the picatinny rail on , i would be only a few milimetres high then if you need to take the scope off that ,its a few seconds job , also you might stand a chance of keeping zero with that system when you put the scope back on

There is no rail .... all there is are the parallel pair of dovetail grooves

[wild boar]

these are the kind of things i meant - machined a little wider and sharp to fit in the dovetail there might be ones even lower if googled - once fitted it would be easy to remove the scope from the mounts etc.


https://www.jsramsbottom.com/product...-adaptor-rail-[rb5].html

[Argonaut]

Got it sorted ....

The fittings can be seen in this pic https://flic.kr/p/2e45A74

Sorry I can't load as a picture, forum does not show any image I load.