Why would AA make a high end break Barrel for the UK

[Barryg]

All high end springers have a large swept volume so there must be a reason for that for a start, also there is
a ( slight possibility of a licence ) this could crash sales in the UK, where would they be then.

I say bring back the old improved Pro-Elite

[Hsing-ee]

This has been done to death in other threads.

The US and overseas markets are the most important, and they like over 12 fpe rifles.

AA did make the Pro-Elite as you say but it was not a big seller in the UK or abroad, which it was aimed at. Perhaps people thought the TX200 was a better choice than a big break-barrel.

Anyway, it would be nice if Air Arms made a sub 12 fpe break-barrel springer along the lines of a posh Weihrauch HW99S/HW50S for the UK.

But they are not going to as there is not enough profit in it, or for some other reason - maybe the cheaper rifle would steal sales of their TX200HC?

Buy a Weihrauch HW99S, fit it with a tinbum kit and fettle it, then stick an Union Jack sticker on it.

Job done, as it will have been effectively 'made in Britain' as the assembly and final finishing would have been done here.

[Barryg]

Buy a Weihrauch HW99S, fit it with a tinbum kit and fettle it, then stick an Union Jack sticker on it

I Was talking high end springers not junior entry level guns what about the possibility of a licence could this effect any AA decisions I haven't seen that been done to death in other threads.

[TonyL]

I'm sure that if Air Arms had considered it commercially viable, we'd have seen a new break barrel by now. They're a forward-thinking company very much in touch with the market, as witnessed in very recent times with their involvement in Target Sprint.

I wouldn't consider a HW99S as a "junior, entry level gun". It's a lighter weight, more compact rifle with superb trigger and shooting manners allowing it the ability to out-perform many larger, more expensive guns.

[look no hands]

This has been done to death in other threads.

The US and overseas markets are the most important, and they like over 12 fpe rifles.

AA did make the Pro-Elite as you say but it was not a big seller in the UK or abroad, which it was aimed at. Perhaps people thought the TX200 was a better choice than a big break-barrel.

Anyway, it would be nice if Air Arms made a sub 12 fpe break-barrel springer along the lines of a posh Weihrauch HW99S/HW50S for the UK.

But they are not going to as there is not enough profit in it, or for some other reason - maybe the cheaper rifle would steal sales of their TX200HC?

As what Alistair says above really, just because a handful of people on here would say they would have one, doesn't mean AA are going to spend a fortune to design and tool up the factory for what could possibly be a loss line for them, there's a lot of stiff competition for them, admittedly half of the competition is pretty sub standard but there seems to be one manufacturer that has it all sewn up and that's HW with a massive range of rifles to suit all tastes, it would be interesting to know how many Walther LGV's have been sold since their introduction as Umarex spent a lot of time and money on R&D (according to the airgun mags at the time) to build a 'tuned out of the box' supergun from scratch, as we all know Umarex is a massive company and can probably absorb not making a load of dosh on the LGV straight from the start, where I think it would hit a small company like Air Arms, even if they did produce a rifle that was far better quality than anything else out there at the moment, not everyone can afford a high end break barrel and what with the uncertainty of what might happen in a few months time with Brexit, that could be another stumbling stone for them.

Pete

[mrto]

AA should just pull their finger out and do it!They are an engineering company and engineering companies make stuff from scratch if needed!

They have pretty much two thirds of the gun already available from production models anyway.

Of course,the gun would be a massive success,they're pretty lame IMO!

[mattyw1987]

It would be nice if air arms made one but I can't see it happening... On the other hand if you want a high quality British made break barrel rifle aimed at the sub12 market you can find a brumbow? I love mine.

[T 20]

All high end springers have a large swept volume

Nope, I can't think of a single high end springer in production with a large swept volume, Barry.

Most high end springers seem to have a swept volume of around 40cc or under with the exception of the HW80 with its swept volume of around 57cc --- I can't think of anything with a higher swept volume than an 80 that I'd class as high end.

And I'm sure AirArms know exactly what they're doing in not producing a break barrel, they tried it once and it didn't take off in the markets they were targeting, so they knocked it on the head.




All the best Mick

[Barryg]

Nope, I can't think of a single high end springer in production with a large swept volume, Barry.

Most high end springers seem to have a swept volume of around 40cc or under with the exception of the HW80 with its swept volume of around 57cc --- I can't think of anything with a higher swept volume than an 80 that I'd class as high end.

All the best Mick

I am a bit surprised you think that Mick

Flag ships 40cc or under

the HW 97 is 43cc
the AA TX/PS is 48cc
the Diana 56 is 61cc
the Diana 470 is 70cc
the Webley Tomahawk and Eclipse/Patriot
the AA P/E
the new Feinwerkbau Sport
and so on.

I cant think of a single flag ship springer that is under 40 cc can you tell us?

[T 20]

I am a bit surprised you think that Mick

Flag ships 40cc or under

the HW 97 is 43cc
the AA TX/PS is 48cc
the Diana 56 is 61cc
the Diana 470 is 70cc
the Webley Tomahawk and Eclipse/Patriot
the AA P/E
the new Feinwerkbau Sport
and so on.

I cant think of a single flag ship springer that is under 40 cc can you tell us?

Flag ship, Barry --- where did that come from ? and I wrote around 40cc.

Your statement was about high end springers, high end to me is a well made product and as I've said above I can't think of any well made/high end springers still produced with a greater swept volume than an HW80.

Well made springers below 40cc would obviously include the HW99 and HW30.

[Hsing-ee]

A break barrel version of a TX would cost 70 or 80 per cent of a TX so most people would go for a TX as it would only be a cheap scope's spend more to get.

The Pro-Elite didn't sell, why do you think they are so rare?

Many people wanted a 'new' Feinwerkbau Sport but even fewer of those have been sold.

In the end fixed barrel are seen as being the ultimate in precision springer designs, even Walther/Umarex realised this after the sales flop of their LGV, in spite of glowing reviews from every quarter.

After the HW77, it has to be fixed barrel, direct loading for springers, or it's not a full deck of Lightning F-35s. Break-barrel is for nostalgia buffs, rat-busters and the hoi polloi, or American power-seekers.

I have a fair number myself, but my 'serious' springer at any one time has been a 77, a Prosport or a TX.

Love the HW30S!

[Barryg]

Flag ship, Barry --- where did that come from ? and I wrote around 40cc.

Your statement was about high end springers, high end to me is a well made product and as I've said above I can't think of any well made/high end springers still produced with a greater swept volume than an HW80.

Well made springers below 40cc would obviously include the HW99 and HW30.

I would have thought that high end meant a manufactures flag ship, but I see that you are just talking about your own personal opinion

But all of today's manufactures put a large swept volume in their high end/flag ship springers so there must be a reason for that and AA would know it so why not bring back a improved PE.

[peddy]

You would think AA would have a wider range of springers to challenge HW, but their pcp's range is huge compared to most companies, they know their business and future sales don't include springers in volume so no point in wasting company resources, it's a shame though.

[TonyL]

But all of today's manufactures put a large swept volume in their high end/flag ship springers so there must be a reason for that and AA would know it so why not bring back a improved PE.

U.S market, Barry.

[TonyL]

A break barrel version of a TX would cost 70 or 80 per cent of a TX so most people would go for a TX as it would only be a cheap scope's spend more to get.

The Pro-Elite didn't sell, why do you think they are so rare?

Many people wanted a 'new' Feinwerkbau Sport but even fewer of those have been sold.

In the end fixed barrel are seen as being the ultimate in precision springer designs, even Walther/Umarex realised this after the sales flop of their LGV, in spite of glowing reviews from every quarter.

After the HW77, it has to be fixed barrel, direct loading for springers, or it's not a full deck of Lightning F-35s. Break-barrel is for nostalgia buffs, rat-busters and the hoi polloi, or American power-seekers.

I have a fair number myself, but my 'serious' springer at any one time has been a 77, a Prosport or a TX.

Love the HW30S!

Got to agree with much of this, Al, BUT (and I haven't a clue as to sales volumes), but was / is the LGV a sales flop?

And that lovely new FWB Sport would find many willing owners if the pricing was correct and availability & distribution channels sorted.