77 V 97 Easy question if you know the answer

[Carl2]

Excuse my ignorance but do these guns have different specific uses? To someone not in the know they appear to both be suitable for the same purposes and in competition to each other. I get the impression that when Weihrauch bring out any new products they simply add them to the existing range so with this in mind was the 97simply introduced as an updated 77?

[Geezer]

Excuse my ignorance but do these guns have different specific uses? To someone not in the know they appear to both be suitable for the same purposes and in competition to each other. I get the impression that when Weihrauch bring out any new products they simply add them to the existing range so with this in mind was the 97simply introduced as an updated 77?

Yes, basically.

Just as the HW80 was an updated HW35, and the HW95 was a smaller HW80, and those three all compete with each other, especially at sub-12 ft-lbs.

[Shed tuner]

If folks want open sights, and the lower stock comb to suit, get the 77.. Otherwise get the 97.

[Phil Russell]

As above but 'yes' and 'no'. The 77 came with open sights and a stock cheekpiece more suited to open sights, although I used one with a scope for years. The 97 had no open sights and a stock more suited to scope use. It also had a sort of moderator fitted as standard. A mod could be fitted to a 77 though ... HW did (do?) a specific mod that slips on either side of the front sight or there were some 'tuning' specials that included a mod with a revised underlever catch.
Cheers, Phil

[Mach 1.5]

As above. The 80 was heavy!! So weihrauch in the mid 80's did the 85 and then the 95 took over.

[Geezer]

HW have a very non-typical business strategy.

They are very conservative.

They took ages to enter the PCP market despite the damage PCPs were doing to sales of their springers.

They keep models in production for ever: the 35 dates to the 50s, the HW70 pistol to about 1972.

The majority of their springers still have iron sights and are stocked accordingly.

Until about ten years ago, Diana seemed to have a similar business model. Apart from the Giss target guns and the 45, their line-up in 1983 was predominantly the same as it had been in 1955. Their 2005 range was basically identical to their range in 1985.

It’s the equivalent of BSA still offering Airsporters.

Anyway, it seems to work for HW. They appear to have avoided the financial difficulties that most of their competitors have had over the years.

[Shed tuner]

Anyway, it seems to work for HW. They appear to have avoided the financial difficulties that most of their competitors have had over the years.

..largely because the old HW springers are actually still perfectly good guns; fairly simply engineering, well made, accurate and reliable. In the airgun "mass market", that's actually all most people are looking for !

[Geezer]

..largely because the old HW springers are actually still perfectly good guns; fairly simply engineering, well made, accurate and reliable. In the airgun "mass market", that's actually all most people are looking for !

Can’t disagree with that!

[ac509]

The 97 has a form of moderator integral to the rifle, which prevents the use of iron sights. The 77 comes with open sights but the current production rifles have a comb which is seemingly set for scope use - mine is, at any rate, and I find it to be a minor issue (we'll quietly omit the issue of rifles like the HW30 - some models lack sights but still have a low comb). More irritating is that the rear sight block seems to be quite cheaply made and on my example shifts from side to side when it's in the car. To the best of my knowledge, Weihrauch continue to offer a slip-on moderator for the 77 which provides enough clearance for the sights. I cannot make any significant comment on internal differences as I have not dismantled either rifle, however, a cursory glance at exploded parts diagrams for both suggests that they are near-identical internally.

In terms of purpose, they seem to be built with the same objectives, both being well-made, adult-sized sporting rifles suitable for quarry shooting. I would be inclined to suggest that the 97 was released in order to maintain sales, given that a lack of iron sights is no bother to many hunters and an integral moderator/shroud has a cleaner appearance and probably better performance than a slip-on unit. I don't consider the 77 and 97 to be competing rifles, but rather a personal choice based on what you need and want out of a rifle. They're near-identical and made by the same manufacturer, so I suspect it's a game of satisfying as many customers as possible.

[WILBA]

As above. The 80 was heavy!! So weihrauch in the mid 80's did the 85 and then the 95 took over.

the 85 was a slightly smaller cylinder then the 80 i was told.

[Geezer]

the 85 was a slightly smaller cylinder then the 80 i was told.

The 85/95 have a 26mm cylinder. 80 is 30mm.

I think for a while the 97 had a square section spring. But no longer.

[Craig-P]

The 85/95 have a 26mm cylinder. 80 is 30mm.

I think for a while the 97 had a square section spring. But no longer.

MK1 97 was also 25mm piston, same as the MK1/2 77