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Thread: Lincoln Jeffries / BSA 1906 Bayonet Under Lever Rifle

  1. #46
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    Have a go at it with some G96 gun blue creme.
    Old guns seem to like it and often end up looking patinated instead of just cr@p.

    As mentioned above I have an early Light that appears to be two guns joined together.
    It also has a welded underlever.
    It shoots very well tho!

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huttles94 View Post
    Lincoln Jeffries started to make his iconic rifle in the early 1900s at his Steelhouse lane workshop. The first batch of Lincoln jeffries rifles were made from 1901-1904. This was serial number 1 to 129.

    After this LJ went to BSA and showed them his design and soon after the first batch of Lincoln Jeffries rifles made by BSA were released and after that, both LJ made rifles and BSA made ones were released simultaneously.

    I cant remember exactly why LJ went to BSA but I think it was mainly since LJ only had a small team of skilled staff and so his output was very limited. So a keen business man, he goes to the largest arms maker of the time in England. It just so happened that BSA at the time were in a bit of trouble. The UK was not at war and so arms manufacturing was a bit slow. So when LJ came along with his air rifle, BSA jumped at the chance since what else did they have to do? So it made a nice income for LJ and BSA.

    That is also why Lincoln made rifles are rarer than BSA made ones, simply less were made. Sure they were made in different factories but from the same designs so parts can be interchangeable.

    The last batch of Lincoln rifles to roll out of his factory were in 1912/13. Do not know why LJ stopped but that was it. After this, all were made by BSA (I think BSA dropped the Lincoln jeffries pattern markings on their rifles around the same time or maybe a bit earlier, not sure).
    LJ made the first 'pre production' models but from SN 130 onward, both Lincolns and BSAs were made side by side at the BSA factory. LJ was contracted by BSA to take delivery of batches of Lincolns, whether this was convenient to him or not. The Lincolns were then assembled at Lincoln Jeffries' premises and sighted in. BSA supplied parts to LJ after they had become obsolete and upgraded by BSA, which is why you often see parts like the 'long' tap lever fitted to Lincolns with relatively high serial numbers in the 20000s.

    Lincoln production ceased after BSA acquired the patents from LJ and from then on, only BSAs were produced.


    Just a thought Gareth - on late Lincolns, the serial number is sometimes stamped under the barrel, where you found the '49' mark. Sometimes you have to remove the cocking lever to see it - may be worth a look?

    John

  3. #48
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    I have been following this thread from a distance until now. BSA produced the Lincoln Air Rifle, for Lincoln Jeffries under contract, and allocated serial numbers batches before the event. Initially Lincoln Rifles sold well, but BSA watched and learned, and eventually produced a largely identical rifle under their own name. Being a much larger concern, they mobilised their huge marketing clout, to help sell THEIR rifles. Lincoln Jeffries didnt have such a huge marketing budget at his disposal, and in comparison Lincoln Jeffries rifles didnt sell as well. In fact Lincoln Jeffries struggled to sell his allocations of guns. Eventually I surmise that Lincoln ended up owing BSA quite a lot of money, and seeing as he was getting older, and maybe wanted a quieter life I think he came to an arrangement, whereby BSA took over some of the patents in return for righting off some of the debts ( it sounds reasonable?)

    In the end, Lincoln Jeffries was outsold by his own invention, but made by the BSA.

    Getting back to the gun in question, in over 100 years of life, guns often have parts changed over, and when you consider that Lincoln Jeffries guns were made on the BSA production line, out of a combination of general BSA parts AND specialist Lincoln parts such as air Cylinders and certain older bits such as trigger guards and tap components, there is a recipe for occasional guns that dont fit the regular norm. Also I think that Pistol Hand guns were the standard way the BSA ( and maybe Lincoln Jeffries guns were sold ) Straight hand stocks were an optional extra, and maybe dealers had spare stocks in order to fulfill the more unusual customer orders. Seeing as BSA guns were outselling Lincoln guns by this time, maybe the dealer was responsible for the stock change, rather than waiting for LJ to send one of his stocks? It is unlikely that smaller dealers would have both Pistolhand and Straighthand guns on the shelf , so maybe a stock change was the easiest way to cover all the bases

    Maybe when Gareths gun was ordered/sold, it was ordered with the less common strighthand stock, and possibly the dealer had run out of the specialised ready logo'd stocks in the LJ name? If that were the case, maybe they might put on the nearest alternative around which surely would have been a contemporary BSA stock from the same period. Does that make the gun wrong?

    It is questions like these that make the in depth collecting of the pre-war under leavers so facinating. Of course, it could also be a bitsa, that was put together out of two or more guns ???

    Still a nice rifle, and still well worth the money that it is being offered at.

    Good luck with the sale Gareth


    ATB

    Lakey

  4. #49
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    Gareth W-B is offline Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
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    Thank you Lakey your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated, and imo, have put this thread to bed. Atvb: Gareth.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth W-B View Post

    Thank you Lakey your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated, and imo, have put this thread to bed. Atvb: Gareth.
    I think Lakey summed it up well and the


    'Still a nice rifle, and still well worth the money that it is being offered at.'

    is spot on...

  6. #51
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    Another thought in Birmingham Area and the Black Country where Bell Target was endemic during this period of Time in Birmingham alone there was over 3000 Bell Target Clubs. It could be quite conceivable that the Stock was simply swapped so the Rifle would suit a particular shooter.
    The other thought is the same as Lakeys, that it was assembled from parts already in Stock and supplied to LJ at some period of time. you will never know. However a nice piece of History anyway so why worry


    Inproved Steve

  7. #52
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    Glad to see it’s sold Gareth, hope you’re happy with the price.

    I bet the original owners would never dream we’d be speculating on the history of these rifles more than a century later.

    It’s been an interesting thread.

    Atb,

    Matt.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binners View Post

    I think Lakey summed it up well and the


    'Still a nice rifle, and still well worth the money that it is being offered at.'

    is spot on ...
    ... Why thank you kind Sir. Hope to see you at Kempton next month. Atvb my good friend: G.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptdunk View Post

    Glad to see it’s sold Gareth, hope you’re happy with the price.

    I bet the original owners would never dream we’d be speculating on the history of these rifles more than a century later.

    It’s been an interesting thread.

    Atb,

    Matt.
    Yep, and Mr LJ would be amused, too? ... Agreed, it had been a really interesting thread (one for the archive ). Cheers Matt, take care, and see you again on the circuit sometime. Atb m8: G.
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  10. #55
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    I think we’ve all learnt from this thread.
    Not least that we don’t shout at each other on this part of the forum!

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingernut View Post

    I think we’ve all learnt from this thread.
    Not least that we don’t shout at each other on this part of the forum!
    Well put Pat: gets my vote x2.
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  12. #57
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    This gun is in better condition than it looks in the pictures and shoots great by the way i am the new owner thanks gareth

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanok2002 View Post
    This gun is in better condition than it looks in the pictures and shoots great by the way i am the new owner thanks gareth
    Well done Alan
    Make sure you bring it with you to the April Boinger bash..
    I'll be bringing a couple of LJ Bsa's my self..
    Les..

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanok2002 View Post
    This gun is in better condition than it looks in the pictures and shoots great by the way i am the new owner thanks gareth
    I sold it to Gareth 5 years ago.
    It is a good one and nice that its still in BBS hands,

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanok2002 View Post

    This gun is in better condition than it looks in the pictures and shoots great by the way i am the new owner thanks gareth
    You are very welcome, Alan. Thanks for such a smooth deal, and I am so pleased it has gone to a fellow BBS regular and Boinger Bash aficionado.
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