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  1. #1
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    A couple of interesting home-made air pistols

    I recently picked up a couple of home-made air pistols. One is a gat-type that was obviously scratch built, and the other is a customised Webley Mark 1. I don’t usually look to collect this sort of thing (except for my own efforts) but sometimes you get them almost accidentally, sometimes they just intrigue you. Although I have no information about who made them, or when they were made, they do have some features of interest.

    The push-barrel pistol is of very heavy and solid construction, all-steel except for a brass barrel liner and milled brass grip plates. All the components are closely machined and the frame is held together entirely by screws, with no rivets, spot welds or pins. It was clearly made by someone with excellent machining skills, but whoever it was wasn’t very hot on fancy looks.






    Although it follows the typical gat design, the maker introduced some original features of his own, such as the unusual loading pin arrangement and the trigger/sear system. The gun also has an unusually long piston stroke for this type of pistol, so the intention was probably to produce something with a bit more oomph than the average push-barrel.




    The gun has no markings, so no clue as to who could have made it, but as all the screws are BA it was almost certainly made in this country. From the patina on the frame, corrosion on the brass plates when received, and the general appearance of the internals when I took it apart I would say that it was made more than 50 years ago, perhaps immediate pre-war or post war.

    I know it’s fanciful speculation, but I can’t help feeling there is a connection between this and the first Harrington Gats from before the war. I have had a close look at one of these Harringtons, which have some key differences to their later post-war versions. The Harrington uses two fixing screws and these also have BA threads. You can see a loose similarity between the trigger mechanisms of the two pistols (the Harrington is on the right):




    Maybe this pistol was Harrington’s first prototype when he started to explore the possibility of making his own push-barrel pistol? Wishful thinking I know, but who knows? It was definitely made to be easily taken apart. It seems that a few Bussey prototype pistols and at least one Lincoln Jeffries prototype pistol have found their way onto the collecting scene and were never scrapped. Why not a Harrington prototype? If anybody knowns anything about this pistol I would be very grateful to hear from them.

    I will post something on the Webley pistol when I have had time to take a few pictures.

  2. #2
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Hi l had a pistol very much like this one, which l put it down to being a home made one off but very well done and quite heavy. as l recall the pellet loading bit was slighty different it didn't have the nut holding the barrel in. pity l didn't take any photos of it before l sold it.

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    Hi John --is one half of the frame part of the cylinder set up or is all the frame screwed to the underside of the cylinder.
    Also, is that a screw for adjusting the trigger underneath the sear spring?
    Looking at the gun from the point of view of ease of making and stripping (Because I am an untalented idiot with limited skills and tools), I like the nut holding the barrel as that seems a better idea than the peened over set up on gats. Also the nut for the probe seems a better idea than the normal set up. Do you think that bit is some sort of modified gas fitting?
    It looks like the leaf spring is one out of a lock to me as well, which makes sense if you can find something to do the job.
    The screw as a rearsight, I guess , gives some limited form of elevation adjustment?
    I'd be interested what is in the cylinder, by way of sealing round the barrel. I am always amazed with gats that the air can be persuaded to go into the barrel through the transfer port without bypassing the barrel where it goes through to the bit of the gun that holds the mainspring.
    I am waiting for the Webley pics
    Last edited by ggggr; 30-01-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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  4. #4
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Hi Guy. Both sides of the frame come away leaving just a thin steel profile frame attached to the underside of the cylinder. I was wrong when I said that the gun had no welds as I have found that the profile frame has just one spot weld to the cylinder, just under the breech area. The other end of the profile frame is fixed to the cyllnder by the small bolt you can see. Why he didn't just use two welds I don't know.

    Yes, that screw is for adjusting the tension on the sear spring - an odd refinement, especially as you have to take the frame side off to reach the screw. It makes me think even more that this as an experimental prototype.

    The cylinder sealing method seems to be just the usual leather washer arrangement you get in gats.

    Pics of the Webley here soon.

    Cheers, John

  5. #5
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Extended barrel Webley Mk 1

    I finally managed to get pictures sorted out for the customised Webley, the second of the “homemade “ air pistols. I acquired this oddity as part of another auction lot that I bid on, and it wasn’t something I particularly wanted. My original intention was to convert it back to original condition, but it turned out to be quite nicely done so I will be leaving it as it is. It is a post-war Webley Mark 1 with an extended barrel:







    It was probably inspired by those customised long barrel Webley Seniors that appeared briefly on the market in the 1950’s. These were .22 and had an 11 and a quarter inch barrel, whereas this one is 0.177 with a 10 inch barrel. The barrel is nicely rifled and was most probably turned down from the barrel of a rifle. The modified cocking link has been well done with a short L-shaped steel section brazed under the barrel as the main pivot unit which connects at its rear end to the conventional Mark 1 cocking link.

    The front sight blade is brazed into a slot in the barrel and is non-adjustable. It shoots much like a normal Mark 1 and I have not noticed any significant increase in accuracy, although my shooting skills are probably not good enough to judge this reliably.
    I don’t know who made the modification, other than that there are the initials AJP stamped on the left hand side of the pivot bar. Does anybody have any idea who AJP might be?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    I finally managed to get pictures sorted out for the customised Webley, the second of the “homemade “ air pistols. I acquired this oddity as part of another auction lot that I bid on, and it wasn’t something I particularly wanted. My original intention was to convert it back to original condition, but it turned out to be quite nicely done so I will be leaving it as it is. It is a post-war Webley Mark 1 with an extended barrel:







    It was probably inspired by those customised long barrel Webley Seniors that appeared briefly on the market in the 1950’s. These were .22 and had an 11 and a quarter inch barrel, whereas this one is 0.177 with a 10 inch barrel. The barrel is nicely rifled and was most probably turned down from the barrel of a rifle. The modified cocking link has been well done with a short L-shaped steel section brazed under the barrel as the main pivot unit which connects at its rear end to the conventional Mark 1 cocking link.

    The front sight blade is brazed into a slot in the barrel and is non-adjustable. It shoots much like a normal Mark 1 and I have not noticed any significant increase in accuracy, although my shooting skills are probably not good enough to judge this reliably.
    I don’t know who made the modification, other than that there are the initials AJP stamped on the left hand side of the pivot bar. Does anybody have any idea who AJP might be?

    Hi John---That foresight looks like it is off a MK2 BSA Meteor. Just checking the length of one from the front to where the "Bsa" is stamped on the barrel is 10 inches, so it would not show on your barrel if it is a Meteor one as that bit would have been turned down to fit the breech block.

    Do you have a long barreled Senior? I've never seen one. Did they have a modified linkage, as over 9 1/4 inches the barrel would hit the trigger guard?
    In one of the old Arrgun worlds, somebody modifed a Premier and went for a long barrel, but it fouled on the trigger guard so they had to modify the linkage. I think Gerald Cardew turned it down from a Cadet barrel.
    Last edited by ggggr; 31-01-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    I recently picked up a couple of home-made air pistols. One is a gat-type that was obviously scratch built, and the other is a customised Webley Mark 1. I don’t usually look to collect this sort of thing (except for my own efforts) but sometimes you get them almost accidentally, sometimes they just intrigue you. Although I have no information about who made them, or when they were made, they do have some features of interest.

    The push-barrel pistol is of very heavy and solid construction, all-steel except for a brass barrel liner and milled brass grip plates. All the components are closely machined and the frame is held together entirely by screws, with no rivets, spot welds or pins. It was clearly made by someone with excellent machining skills, but whoever it was wasn’t very hot on fancy looks.






    Although it follows the typical gat design, the maker introduced some original features of his own, such as the unusual loading pin arrangement and the trigger/sear system. The gun also has an unusually long piston stroke for this type of pistol, so the intention was probably to produce something with a bit more oomph than the average push-barrel.




    The gun has no markings, so no clue as to who could have made it, but as all the screws are BA it was almost certainly made in this country. From the patina on the frame, corrosion on the brass plates when received, and the general appearance of the internals when I took it apart I would say that it was made more than 50 years ago, perhaps immediate pre-war or post war.

    I know it’s fanciful speculation, but I can’t help feeling there is a connection between this and the first Harrington Gats from before the war. I have had a close look at one of these Harringtons, which have some key differences to their later post-war versions. The Harrington uses two fixing screws and these also have BA threads. You can see a loose similarity between the trigger mechanisms of the two pistols (the Harrington is on the right):




    Maybe this pistol was Harrington’s first prototype when he started to explore the possibility of making his own push-barrel pistol? Wishful thinking I know, but who knows? It was definitely made to be easily taken apart. It seems that a few Bussey prototype pistols and at least one Lincoln Jeffries prototype pistol have found their way onto the collecting scene and were never scrapped. Why not a Harrington prototype? If anybody knowns anything about this pistol I would be very grateful to hear from them.

    I will post something on the Webley pistol when I have had time to take a few pictures.

    I have a soft spot for pop out pistols. That is a lovely example. I wish something like that came my way accidentally 😀

  8. #8
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    Question

    Here's another pistol that looks home made to me, It's similar to an Abas Major but much lower quality, I thought someone had possibly made one loosely around the Abas, The owner thinks it may be a prototype!!




    Anyone have any ideas?


    John
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  9. #9
    ggggr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbaz View Post
    Here's another pistol that looks home made to me, It's similar to an Abas Major but much lower quality, I thought someone had possibly made one loosely around the Abas, The owner thinks it may be a prototype!!




    Anyone have any ideas?


    John
    Is it the one that Vic Thompson had on here a few years ago?
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ghlight=pistol
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    Is it the one that Vic Thompson had on here a few years ago?
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ghlight=pistol
    Crikey Guy- It looks like the same pistol to me!!


    John
    for my gunz guitarz and bonzai, see here
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    I'm hoping Vic sees this and can tell us what happened to the gun after his thread.
    He pm'd me about it, I just replied

    Looks like it's done the rounds!!!


    John
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  12. #12
    ggggr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggggr View Post
    Is it the one that Vic Thompson had on here a few years ago?
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ghlight=pistol
    Who owns this gun now???
    I'd love to have a look at it
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    they look interesting

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