A couple of interesting home-made air pistols

[ggggr]

I finally managed to get pictures sorted out for the customised Webley, the second of the “homemade “ air pistols. I acquired this oddity as part of another auction lot that I bid on, and it wasn’t something I particularly wanted. My original intention was to convert it back to original condition, but it turned out to be quite nicely done so I will be leaving it as it is. It is a post-war Webley Mark 1 with an extended barrel:







It was probably inspired by those customised long barrel Webley Seniors that appeared briefly on the market in the 1950’s. These were .22 and had an 11 and a quarter inch barrel, whereas this one is 0.177 with a 10 inch barrel. The barrel is nicely rifled and was most probably turned down from the barrel of a rifle. The modified cocking link has been well done with a short L-shaped steel section brazed under the barrel as the main pivot unit which connects at its rear end to the conventional Mark 1 cocking link.

The front sight blade is brazed into a slot in the barrel and is non-adjustable. It shoots much like a normal Mark 1 and I have not noticed any significant increase in accuracy, although my shooting skills are probably not good enough to judge this reliably.
I don’t know who made the modification, other than that there are the initials AJP stamped on the left hand side of the pivot bar. Does anybody have any idea who AJP might be?

Hi John---That foresight looks like it is off a MK2 BSA Meteor. Just checking the length of one from the front to where the "Bsa" is stamped on the barrel is 10 inches, so it would not show on your barrel if it is a Meteor one as that bit would have been turned down to fit the breech block.

Do you have a long barreled Senior? I've never seen one. Did they have a modified linkage, as over 9 1/4 inches the barrel would hit the trigger guard?
In one of the old Arrgun worlds, somebody modifed a Premier and went for a long barrel, but it fouled on the trigger guard so they had to modify the linkage. I think Gerald Cardew turned it down from a Cadet barrel.

[Powderfinger]

AJP = A.J. Parker ?

[ccdjg]

AJP = A.J. Parker ?

Nice thought, but I would have thought the man himself was six foot under at the time of the Premier. I suppose AJP could be the initials of the company, which was still going at the time, and the modification was done in their workshops, but the professionalism of the workmanship doesn't seem to quite live up to that.

Guy, good point about the risk of the barrel fouling the trigger guard in extended barrel Seniors (and Premiers). Denis Hiller shows a long barrel D series Premier in his book, and the barrel seems to be short enough to get over this problem. He doesn't say anything about this gun, but I assume it is an amateur customisation as I have never heard of any long-barreled Premiers being advertised.

I am not sure how they solved this problem in the commercially produced long-barrel Seniors as I have never seen one on the flesh. Pictures of the Senior are hard to come by and this is the only one I have. That is something for you to do when you get fed up with your table goodies- get out your ruler and compasses and work out the trajectory of the barrel when it is cocked.





Does anyone own one of these rare Seniors? Apparently they contained a few other modifications and it would be nice to get some more pics and feedback on performance.

[ggggr]

Guy, good point about the risk of the barrel fouling the trigger guard in extended barrel Seniors (and Premiers). Denis Hiller shows a long barrel D series Premier in his book, and the barrel seems to be short enough to get over this problem. He doesn't say anything about this gun, but I assume it is an amateur customisation as I have never heard of any long-barreled Premiers being advertised.

I am not sure how they solved this problem in the commercially produced long-barrel Seniors as I have never seen one on the flesh. Pictures of the Senior are hard to come by and this is the only one I have. That is something for you to do when you get fed up with your table goodies- get out your ruler and compasses and work out the trajectory of the barrel when it is cocked.





Does anyone own one of these rare Seniors? Apparently they contained a few other modifications and it would be nice to get some more pics and feedback on performance.

Ruler and compasses? My maths are a bit rusty for all the angles and stuff as well ---------------However, looking at your pic, it looks like the barrel band is a little further back than a normal Senior, BUT the back of the long link comes to the same place. That would suggest to me that Webley would have fitted a Mk1 long link (which is shorter than a Senior one) to the Senior intermediate link. I guess that this would have kept the long link flatter until the Fulcrum kicked in and cocked the gun. This would have been done to allow a barrel longer than 9 1/4 inches, without fouling the trigger guard. I think (off the top of my head) Mk ones dimensions could have been used but that would have made the gun hard to cock.
I cannot see Webley making a different long link for a long barreled version as that would have confused the spares situation even more.

Maybe someone can put up that Premier article from AGW? I think it was called "how to turn a pig into your favourite pistol" --or something similar.

[1066]

I have a similar one - It's a Premier bought new in about the middle 60's for £9.19/6. I machined and fitted the longer barrel and made new grips in the middle 70's. I recently re-discovered this, along with a BSA Merlin underlever rifle, when I cleaned out my dads shed, they have been laying there for 40 years and unfortunately now in poor condition.


I can't really remember what the barrel started life as but at about the time I bought a job lot of Baikal junior break barrel rifles and fitted them with aperture sights for a scout troop, so could well be one of those, they were really very accurate for a cheap rifle.

[ccdjg]

A neater job than mine as you have kept the barrel bands. Your second pic certainly shows the problem Guy highlighted about barrel length and restricted cocking. I am still not clear how the commercial ones coped with an 11 inch barrel.

[ggggr]

A neater job than mine as you have kept the barrel bands. Your second pic certainly shows the problem Guy highlighted about barrel length and restricted cocking. I am still not clear how the commercial ones coped with an 11 inch barrel.

After our chat today John and re reading an old AGW article about a Premier with a long barrel (thanks to troubledshooter for emailling it to me )
I had a think about it. The AGW article had a modded Premier than Gerald Cardew had made the barrel for from a BSA Cadet. The barrel was 12 inches and fouled the trigger guard and he mentions that is why everyone else went for 10 inch barrels. He faffed about and put a spacer under the piston washer, therefore shortening the stroke a little. Too much and the cocking shoe would hit the holding flange of the piston when closing the barrel

I was thinking about it and the only simple way of fitting a barrel long than 9 3/4 --10 inches would be to use Mk1 barrel band spacing on the barrel and Mk1 linkages--------------Which would mean it would cock like a Mk1 one and the fulcrum would not come into play.
As these barrels were a none Webley aftermarket part (according to the pm you sent me) then it would have to be a straight swap with the Senior barrel otherwise they would have to mess with the piston and probably the linkages too.
Is there a chance that picture is a mock up/ non working example? maybe with the cocking shoe left out? A Senior linkage would look better and be a better seller than someone seeing a Mk 1 linkage and thinking "Sod that!"

OR Is that barrel pivot offset?