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Thread: Oaks Open Results

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chichester
    Posts
    1,191

    Aaannd

    ...clank, clank, clank....

    However I would imagine a tin full of soft squidgee suff makes no noise at all, or maybe just a very dull thud, thud, thud

    ...clank, clank, clank....

    Get you monkey, setting yourself up as part of the establishment....thought of you as lots of things but never thought of you as that

    Anyway, anti establishment figures either do not engage with "the man" or they do their best to bring down the establishment, my comments come from the perspective of an average shooter (who likes to talk..clank..) and from someone who occassionally sets courses to UKAHFT rules.

    Back to the overly complicated rules, I know 2019 is done and dusted but why can't all the supported kneelers just have the same support, why the differentiation for range?

    - Get the 15mm down to 8 yards, challenge those long range setups

    - Set ranges to have a tolerance of plus/minus 1 yard except for under 8 yard.
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Buxted County HFT Republic of Crowzilla Sussex
    Posts
    4,295
    Supported kneel or stand (not the supported stander)up until a few years ago were limited to 35yds for 35mm to 45mm hit zone. Some bright spark thought that wasn't challenging enough so 40mm out to 40yds came about, however with a caveat, that anybody who cannot kneel, must be given the option of a support if choosing to take the shot standing. After a couple of years the minimum hole size was reduced down to 35mm.

    To the best of my knowledge there are some tolerances built into a UKAHFT course measurements if targets are challenged.

    In SiHFT it is written into our rules that once the course has been checked all targets stand and none can be removed with the course checker taking their ineptitude squarely on their chin for allowing a fluck up by the course setters to go unchallenged before the start of the competition.

    However you yourself Lol take exception to the 8yarder not being allowed to stand if it is closer than 8yds. I would argue that it is the same for all distances regarding what hole sizes are allowed where. The people who attend who are competetive set their kit up to play the game they have paid their money to enter and invested lots of time and money into it as well. Often they play the percentages on certain shots putting their 13 or 45yd aim point into respective targets. Is it right they come out of the bottom of either of these targets because of poor lazy course setting? No of course it's not that has cost then 2% so yes they should be able to challenge the targets legality and if it is wrong even by an inch then yes it should be pulled if the rules so allow. If you get knocked on your arse in the ring you don't get an eleven count do you.

    HFT is very inclusive and at most shoots we have an idea who will do well on the day and who probably won't whose come for a laugh and who has come to compete. All have a good time in their own way. All deserve to have a quality days entertainment with legal targets conforming to the rules that have advertised as being followed. If the said rules have been infringed by the course setters then they should be prepared to fall on their swords. My shed is full of tapes they aren't that expensive and if people are lazy enough to use a digital rangefinder to set a course that has targets set on their limits then they should prepare themselves for complaints and targets getting pulled. People don't come out to shoot 12yd 15mm or 46yd 35mm. They won't at my club and my club members especially the ones who put in the time and effort to set courses shouldn't be expected to shoot none conforming targets at other clubs when they are paying for the privelage.

    Monkey.
    Buxted HFT Garage Guns are Us. Home of Crowzilla Doppers doughnut corner and SiHFT winners 2007 2008 2009 2010 2017 2018 2019.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    East Grinstead
    Posts
    597
    I have to say that I agree with the sentiments above.

    HFT, as a discipline, has to be standardised and regulated otherwise chaos would ensue. That is why I "fell on my sword" after my club's course at the last SHS was called into question and found wanting. Such standardisation emanates from the existence of rules; and from the moral strength of people prepared to question suspected errors and those prepared to stand up and enforce the rules. I believe that such activity ensures fairness, challenge and fun for all and that it should be valued and propagated.

    I also believe, however, that the rules themselves should be adaptable to meet changing circumstances; and that such developments depend upon robust discussion and reflection. So, long may that continue too.

    Just a view.

    pj

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chichester
    Posts
    1,191

    Robust discussion

    I am not saying rules are not needed, I absolutely understand the thirst some have to win, and I admire the effort some put in to do that (you included Monkey ), I am just questioning some rules that I find odd or am not clever enough to fully understand.


    ....however with a caveat, that anybody who cannot kneel, must be given the option of a support if choosing to take the shot standing....

    ...HFT is very inclusive...

    This is the very point I was trying to make, I cannot understand why someone who cannot kneel is given the option to take a supported stander on a peg allocated as a supported kneeler only when its over 35 yards, why not all supported kneelers...they have to free stand the shorter ones which gives those who can kneel a massive advantage, overly complicated rule and not so much inclusion there?


    ...To the best of my knowledge there are some tolerances built into a UKAHFT course measurements if targets are challenged...

    ..if it is wrong even by an inch then yes it should be pulled if the rules so allow...

    So is that tolerance a secret only available to the "establishment" because I don't see it in the UKAHFT rules, it must be less than 6" as witnessed recently, an inch really, is that form the front or back of the peg, with a carbine or full length barrel


    ...However you yourself Lol take exception to the 8yarder not being allowed to stand if it is closer than 8yds...

    Not so in the context you have quoted it, I have been led to believe by the "establishment" that anything closer than 8 yards is dangerous, that's the context in which I was using that measure...unless I have been mislead



    I also believe, however, that the rules themselves should be adaptable to meet changing circumstances; and that such developments depend upon robust discussion and reflection. So, long may that continue too.

    Hallelujah uncle Phil, hallelujha
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Eastbourne
    Posts
    123
    blimey o'reilly - I dunno about Simmo getting banned from sites but I can see it happening to someone else on here - Lol - see what I did there
    Is it Sunday yet? Be the pellet. Daystate Griffin + Aztec Emerald
    DS Bluewolf, DS Mk3 177 & 22, ProSport 177.
    2x SIHFT Champ 2017 & 2019, BARC HFT Open Class 2018

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Buxted County HFT Republic of Crowzilla Sussex
    Posts
    4,295
    Dear Lol THE TROLL,

    There is no such shot as kneeling. It is "stand or kneel" as it is deemed you cannot force someone to kneel. The 40 yard stand or kneel was allowed in after consultation when it was trialed on the proviso that a support for the stand option must be in place and suitable for shooters of all heights as the range on this shot had been increased. Prior to that all stand or kneel shots had to have a support for the kneeling option but not necessarily the standing option if chosen that remains the same as it has always been.

    I am not privy to UKAHFT National tolerances as I don't marshall them.

    Off course if its wrong by an inch it should be pulled. People use a peg to set their rifles up don't they? or are they just stupid?? Front of the peg as obviously pegs are different sizes before you bring that one up. There is a huge difference between 13yds and 12.5yds to some peoples setups. Why should they be punished for lazy/bad course setting. I have tried high mounts and all the close ones are critical. On super low now so don't care. I hadn't even noticed the 15mm was short I just accepted it was a 20mm and moved on someone much cleverer than me noticed it and called it. I salute him.

    I can't personally understand why someone participating in a precision shooting sport would want the target distances on a course of fire to be anything other than correct to the nearest millimetre as at the end of the day those millimetres are the difference between first and first last.


    Monkey.
    Buxted HFT Garage Guns are Us. Home of Crowzilla Doppers doughnut corner and SiHFT winners 2007 2008 2009 2010 2017 2018 2019.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Buxted County HFT Republic of Crowzilla Sussex
    Posts
    4,295
    Tumble weed comes to mind.

    Monkey.
    Buxted HFT Garage Guns are Us. Home of Crowzilla Doppers doughnut corner and SiHFT winners 2007 2008 2009 2010 2017 2018 2019.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bexhill
    Posts
    253

    My two penneth

    No one forces us to shoot .
    When you turn up to partake in any sport or game you do so knowing and accepting the rules , if you don't like the rules then surely you don't take part ??

    What you don't do is whine and moan incessantly , you just do not take part ... SIMPLES ....

    I don't like some of the rules , i don't understand some of the rules, but i accept that it is somebody else's ball so i choose to go with it .

    Were you bullied as a child Lol ?
    HW100 Hunting tool, HW97 Reaper Titanium Piston (The reaper of pcp souls) Sponsored by Greggs
    Grizzly Catapult Team , Ireland/Buxted HFT

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chichester
    Posts
    1,191

    Incoming...

    Mmmmmmmm peanut butter
    ..."My son," said the Norman Baron...."The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite. But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right"...

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    portslade near brighton
    Posts
    10,274
    Quote Originally Posted by simmmo View Post
    Supported kneel or stand (not the supported stander)up until a few years ago were limited to 35yds for 35mm to 45mm hit zone. Some bright spark thought that wasn't challenging enough so 40mm out to 40yds came about, however with a caveat, that anybody who cannot kneel, must be given the option of a support if choosing to take the shot standing. After a couple of years the minimum hole size was reduced down to 35mm.

    To the best of my knowledge there are some tolerances built into a UKAHFT course measurements if targets are challenged.

    In SiHFT it is written into our rules that once the course has been checked all targets stand and none can be removed with the course checker taking their ineptitude squarely on their chin for allowing a fluck up by the course setters to go unchallenged before the start of the competition.

    However you yourself Lol take exception to the 8yarder not being allowed to stand if it is closer than 8yds. I would argue that it is the same for all distances regarding what hole sizes are allowed where. The people who attend who are competetive set their kit up to play the game they have paid their money to enter and invested lots of time and money into it as well. Often they play the percentages on certain shots putting their 13 or 45yd aim point into respective targets. Is it right they come out of the bottom of either of these targets because of poor lazy course setting? No of course it's not that has cost then 2% so yes they should be able to challenge the targets legality and if it is wrong even by an inch then yes it should be pulled if the rules so allow. If you get knocked on your arse in the ring you don't get an eleven count do you.

    HFT is very inclusive and at most shoots we have an idea who will do well on the day and who probably won't whose come for a laugh and who has come to compete. All have a good time in their own way. All deserve to have a quality days entertainment with legal targets conforming to the rules that have advertised as being followed. If the said rules have been infringed by the course setters then they should be prepared to fall on their swords. My shed is full of tapes they aren't that expensive and if people are lazy enough to use a digital rangefinder to set a course that has targets set on their limits then they should prepare themselves for complaints and targets getting pulled. People don't come out to shoot 12yd 15mm or 46yd 35mm. They won't at my club and my club members especially the ones who put in the time and effort to set courses shouldn't be expected to shoot none conforming targets at other clubs when they are paying for the privelage.

    Monkey.
    I am happy that dear old PJ agreed with your post, i couldn't get to the end, it was even more boring than your personality and that is saying something!
    I found myself looking longingly at the electric breadknife..

    Not sure who gets to go round with you these days but have you noticed any changes in them?... wimpering... general vacant looks?...

    I know you will come back with a 'fancy quip' about said bread knife or something else just as boring but try not to get aggressive, like you did as a meter maid.. ok..

    Love and kisses to all and sunder, spongey xx
    SIHFT Winners 2011 - 2012 - 2013 - AND 2014....2015..2016...oh look back at green...running out of colours! Ha!

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