Slugs

[rapidresponse1]

good vid bud

[averageplinker]

Will have to view the video when I get home tonight!

[krisko]

How can jsb design a slug when they have no unchoked barreled air gun to test them in, catch 22

Cooperation and communication lags on both sides clearly.
They are blaming each other, hopefully a third party will exploit the situation


Something is telling me when they finally come out... some countries will put restriction on such ammo.

[arnie2b]

Prototype H&N slugs

https://www.youtube.com/user/tofazfou/videos
This guy was shooting cans at a 1/4 mile with his simmons scope long before the impact even came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV1caY8myfs

Check his .17hmair videos, he head shoots a ground squirrel at 190 yards. That's the project I've got in mind lack of time etc..

I 'doubt' airarmsSA can do that with his impact and nightforce scope.

[Geezer]

Something is telling me when they finally come out... some countries will put restriction on such ammo.

A real possibility already. Outside the U.K., with the long-established 12 ft-lbs limit.

Setting aside the historical precedents (Girandoni etc) in 1979, a top power air rifle made 11-15.

1980, the HW80 was gusting 20.

1990s, the Patriot, Eliminator and modern PCPs were hitting 30 ft-lbs in .22” and .25”.

Now, there is stuff out there in .357” and .45” making as much as 500 ft-lbs.

At some point, in unrestricted jurisdictions:

A) a criminal will kill someone with an air rifle that makes more power than a 9mm or 45ACP;
B) a mass-shooting nutter will do the same, just more than once;
C) pressure groups/politicians/media will discover that “BB guns” now make more power than a 45ACP. Especially if the next step in development involves magazine repeaters, real or fake semi-auto, etc.

[arnie2b]

A real possibility already. Outside the U.K., with the long-established 12 ft-lbs limit.

Setting aside the historical precedents (Girandoni etc) in 1979, a top power air rifle made 11-15.

1980, the HW80 was gusting 20.

1990s, the Patriot, Eliminator and modern PCPs were hitting 30 ft-lbs in .22” and .25”.

Now, there is stuff out there in .357” and .45” making as much as 500 ft-lbs.

At some point, in unrestricted jurisdictions:

A) a criminal will kill someone with an air rifle that makes more power than a 9mm or 45ACP;
B) a mass-shooting nutter will do the same, just more than once;
C) pressure groups/politicians/media will discover that “BB guns” now make more power than a 45ACP. Especially if the next step in development involves magazine repeaters, real or fake semi-auto, etc.

Some eejit will ruin it no doubt one way or the other.
Airguns still fall in the same bracket as crossbows at the moment and one needs a certain amount of braincells and skill to use them.

They put black powder revolvers on licence ages ago here because someone got it in their head to rob and kill a taxi driver with one.
They did the same thing with 'hunting firearms (smooth and rifled) because someone walked in to a gun shop and bought one 30/30 lever action legally and shot 3 people, 2 of them died. This was 2006.
The latest one is the licencing of magazines, smartly licencing all deactivated weapons because terrorists could buy ak magazines too freely.

Your mass shooter isn't very likely to lug his scuba tank with external regulator with him when he can obtain almost anything he wants on the black market at present.
Never say never.

[ballisticboy]

Slugs can and will work if they are designed and manufactured properly. One problem I have noticed is that many designs appear to be based on 9mm pistol bullet designs, a design noted for poor accuracy while many contain detail mistakes. The Piledriver was a classic case with the boat tail the wrong shape and angle and other chateristics also poor for good flight. Some slug designs are so ridiculous that you have to wonder what the designer was on when he thought of them.
Nearly all of the slug designs have been far too heavy for sub 12FPE use. This is inevitable if solid lead designs are made. If a hollow lead design is tried to reduce the weight then the moments of inertia are all wrong for good ballistic behaviour. Attempts to use zinc or tin have been little better as again the moments of inertia are poor when combined with the usual barrel twist rates.
It does seem to be possible to design and make a slug shaped projectile with a high BC and low weight for use in 12FPE guns in both .177 and .22 calibres. It will need to be made from lead and other materials to obtain the correct balance of inertias and aerodynamic moments. However it will not be a 9mm type shape and the most radical versions will only work at subsonic speeds so the market is probably too limited for most manufacturers. No plastic would be allowed to touch the gun barrel.

[averageplinker]

A very interesting post from ballisticboy above.

I am still left feeling that.....

A) there is unlikely to be an application for such slugs for a non-FAC shooter like myself
B) if slugs are developed for sub 12ftlb market they are unlikely to offer a major advantage over diablo pellets to justify development costs
C) there will be an application for very high power and possibly larger calibre air rifles in foreign markets
D) I do not think that development of slugs will lead to your average mass shooter turning away from firearms as has been suggested somewhere above

Rich.