Dealers or collectors?

[ggggr]

I know this has come up over the years. What do you reckon makes someone a dealer? (someone who deals in guns!) . I know there are people who dont like to turn down anything that they are offered for fear the same source might not think of them next time-----------and then they have the problem of getting rid of the guns that they have bought but dont really want.
I know sometimes people might go to see one gun or buy one off here and get offered another with it (happend to me a few times on here).
I have heard or something silmilar where the person wants to get rid of 4 or 5 guns at once, so it is an"all or nothing" situation.
I know some people are chasing a particular gun so will buy more in this situation to get they one they want and then try to sell the others for what they paid and be happy to have got the one they want.
I also know some people would try to get rid of the others at a profit so the one they wanted was"Free". Often I think this happens with guns that have incomplete ones with them and someone will keep the best and sell the others, of which a couple are fairly crappy with not much chance of gettng them together.
Then you have the carbooters who pay £20 for something and put it up for £80. You also have similar people who will break these guns for bits. I remember Ged was like this and it was never actually a sales thread, more of "I've got these. How much would you pay for these now? They are going back in the lock up"
Then of course you have the ones who break on Evil bay. I've seen a few buy guns on here over the years and then the bits appear there.
How about if you refurb a few guns for "A mate" and he has a table at kempton or similar?
I guess we all have our views and it can be a grey area.
I know I used to buy quite a few years ago, 4 or 5 together a couple of times----------but i was not selling them on. Usually it was to have a look and to do a strip for the Idiots guide.
I do still look for the odd thing and buy the odd one but nowhere near like the past and sometimes it is to try to get bits to finish stuff off, which I am still slowly managing to do.

So what are your views?

[Gareth W-B]

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Hi Guy,

My take on it fwiw? A collector will buy and try and then if not for them, move it on again -- or if it is for them sometimes move something else on instead, as imho, any collection of anything is organic and constantly evolving which is what categorises a collector who collects ...

A collector does not own a collection (ergo a collection considered complete by its custodian), as then they would be the owners of a collection, not be a collector per-say.

Someone who needs categorising as a dealer on the other hand (again imho) is someone who buys something solely with the pure intent of moving it on for profit ...

[nurek]

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Hi Guy,

My take on it fwiw? A collector will buy and try and then if not for them, move it on again -- or if it is for them sometimes move something else on instead, as imho, any collection of anything is organic and constantly evolving which is what categorises a collector who collects ...

A collector does not own a collection (ergo a collection considered complete by its custodian), as then they would be the owners of a collection, not be a collector per-say.

Someone who needs categorising as a dealer on the other hand (again imho) is someone who buys something solely with the pure intent of moving it on for profit ...

This is close to my view too...

I have sold a few bits and pieces to people that I have thought were collectors (for what I thought was fair money) only to find out that they sold on for a massive profit... (it's a small world and you do find out about these things.)

A collector will not be in it for the monetary value, but purely for the pleasure of ownership, a dealer to me is someone who buys items because of the value and sells them on for profit, as an example, I don't mind selling to a genuine collector for no profit at all, of course I don't want to make a loss either, but I am happy as long as I break even.

[Fronteria]

As a collector I know what I want and when I find it in a condition and at a price that I am willing to pay, I purchase the item.
I never obtain anything to sell, the only time I have obtained anything that I didn’t want and sold is an item I was looking for being part of a job lot at an auction, the last one was a jumbo air pistol in it’s original carton with a pre-war Webley Senior air pistol again in its original box, I paid £160-00 for the pair including the auctioneers commission.
I sold the Jumbo for £20-00 to collector friend who collects German air pistols who didn’t have an example of a Jumbo, I had no interest in it and just wanted rid of it.
I was happy as I got what I wanted for £140-00 after selling the Jumbo for £20-00 I didn’t care what it was worth I just wanted shot of it.

[ggggr]

Thanks to the 3 chaps above ^.
Yes I have been sold stuff cheaply and even given bits because people trust me not to sell on and take advantage of their good nature.
I have done the same with a few things and I have found the good will has come back to me
I have aso been gifted a few things and told it is ok to sell them on or swap for something I'm after. I usually keep the things or find someone who has a use (maybe to teach someone to shoot).

[Alakar]

I find that somebody that is a collector is usually more than happy to pay the going rate as they wish to own an item .
Dealers on the other hand knock you down considerably .
I know you don't have to accept their offer , but most of us only sell when we have something else in mind .
Some people seem to take advantage of this .
Others buy and sell for pure profit.
Despite usually being happy with what I've received for goods , it's annoyingly to see the item then advertised on freeads or wherever for considerably more .

[Turnup]

A collector buys to keep and enjoy

A dealer buys to sell on for a profit

Some collectors also deal as a way to fund their collection, but it is usually clear in their minds when purchasing whether it is for the collection or for re-sale.

[urx]

Judging by the terminology its possible to be both a collector and a dealer concurrently and to be either or both in any transactions.
it all depends on whats on offer and what your underlying mix of motivations is

[DCL_dave]

It's an odd one to even think about for me...I have owned a lot of airguns in my time but they have all gone to owners new, usually for less than I paid for them when something else took my fancy...or more often than not the funds were needed for other things, not always airgun related either!...

I amassed a collection of over 50 Gem patterns because I had an insane hunger for knowledge, and so told myself I needed lots of examples to learn as much as I can about them (there being very little info on Gem patterns available at the time)...Did I loose money on them when I sold them on?...oh yes, lost on all bar two of them as I recall!..was it all worth it?...oh yes! money is not my god and never will be.

I only have some HW80 bits and bobs which were gifted to me and my FrankenGem now, it is a bastard amalgam of EG and Quacker parts, which still isn't finished and may never be...meh

[nurek]

It's an odd one to even think about for me...I have owned a lot of airguns in my time but they have all gone to owners new, usually for less than I paid for them when something else took my fancy...or more often than not the funds were needed for other things, not always airgun related either!...

[...]

In my books that makes you a collector, a dealer would have made a profit...

[Jesim1]

I don't think it's nearly as clean cut as this

I can go for the best part of a year and only buy/sell either nothing or a couple of guns, but in other years I can go through half a dozen or more, it just depends what comes up and if I have an interest in it and want to have a play with one for the sake of it. Now and then one of these guns stays and another in my "collection" (which I don't regard it as) goes. I'll always try to get the best deal, but sell for what the market will allow - so if it does not sell I'll reduce it, which can mean losing on a gun from time to time also, especially the new/newer stuff. To put things into perspective I've bought a Serrie Rosso in March last year and a Red Wolf last week - I'll lose £800 on the two of these if I sell them now and I lost £700 on my Steyr LG110HFT last year after owning it for a bout 3 years, but I may make £50 on a gun I bought to play with and decided was ok, but not for me - and I probably spend £30 on fuel also So over time I put a lot back into the melting pot and take a big hit on them, way more than I take out over the same timescales, and I'm not trying to balance the books or make a side living on it, I just do it for the love of the hobby

James

[45flint]

The Alm auction illustrates the two. I’m a collector but having bought 7 in one lot I started selling the ones I had little interest in to yes probably see if I could get some of the ones I wanted and retained for a bargain price. Bit of a game that makes me feel better about owning collectable airguns that seem too pricey but I want to own. I meet a guy online that bought a lot purely to sell for a profit. Not sure he even really that much about what he bought. Just seemed cheap and he could make a buck. Meet another guy that bought a lot of lots and was both. He keep some but the majority he will sell, he was very knowledgeable about what he had.

[Geezer]

Never an issue for me, as I seem almost completely unable to decide to get rid of stuff!

I still regret my first trade (Webley Typhoon pistol for ASI/Gamo Paratrooper repeater in about 1983-4). Not that it was a bad trade, but I miss the Webley.

There is, in the U.K., a legal issue, ill-defined in case law, around selling airguns “by way of trade or business” (set aside taxation issues).

So let’s say I have a collection of 100 airguns, built up over forty years. I need money urgently to fix a leaking roof. I sell 20 airguns. Is that a business, or just selling stuff to get cash?

Say I collect, I buy a job lot of ten guns to get the one I want, and flog off the other nine to pay for the other one?

Or I have, say, an OK Webrauch 37, but then buy a mint boxed engraved X-Mack custom tuned Ron Dobinson stocked Webrauch 37 and sell off the other one?

So, it’s a grey area.

Seems to me that genuine collectors are fine, even if buying and selling for the purposes of collection.

What is absolutely not fine are people claiming to be selling from their “collection” when they bought the thing yesterday cheap at auction or on Free A ds. Mendacious. And in significant quantities on a regular basis combined with hype (JUST TUNED BY MY AIRSMITH, VERY RARE, YOU WILL NOT FIND A B2 THIS GOOD, ONLY 200, BARGIAN).

[Muskett]

I've just gone along with the hobby of it all. A bit of trading keeps the hobby interesting, for me its more hobby turn over for interest sake. Often pick up a rare example being sold in the wrong market and "save it" for those who would never find it otherwise. The £25 mark up or whatever price difference wouldn't justify the effort. I've saved a few from the bin, skip, knowing someone would love it again.
But for every little gain its wiped out completely by the cost of the hobby itself. Turnover is so small it really couldn't be considered trading. Maybe the best year ever might be break even. For every "win" there is a loss maker or at least break even.

Its a hobby and I wouldn't sell anything I wouldn't buy myself for the same amount if I wanted it still.

As for Trade, well they need a mark up. As a buyer know your stuff and know the Traders as some are there for the hobby too rather than to make real bucks.
Yes, I agree there are some "chancers" trading. They are annoying and give the rest of the hobbyists a bad name.

[WILBA]

so are you saying that the tracker i bought 4yrs ago for £100 which was off a guy who wanted to shift it cheap to buy another gun which is now worth £200 i cannot sell it for this or i am a dealer?? that would be a silly statement. sometimes luck fortunes the brave and if i sell at a profit a few yrs later then that is my good fortune. some people are selling theorbens for a grand they picked up for 400-500 4yrs ago. thats not a dealer but more good luck to them for taking the risk to buy a gun thats gone up in value. or are you saying guys who buy and then sell a few weeks later are dealer?