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Thread: anyone tried the lothar walther barrel on a crosman co2 pistol?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    Ah Tony, if logic came into it at all then you would be completely correct

    Half the fun is in the building of the thing - does it make financial sense? God no. Is it immensely satisfying to make and shoot your very own unique pistol? Absolutely
    Certainly can't disagree with any of the above.

    Many will do it simply because they can and there's a whole lot of fun and satisfaction to be had from tinkering; maybe even more so, sometimes, when transforming "budget" guns into something quite special.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    The trouble with external power adjustment on a 2240 is that if you've done a few other mods it's not difficult to crank the power right up past the limit. For the pistols at least it's best to set the power internally (leaving a decent margin for the coming summer heat) and be done with it.
    While the 2250 rifle is a PITA to get to full power, the 2240 pistol has the opposite problem.

    With this system you set the power by adjusting the length of the allen bolt (I had a few on hand so was able to play around chopping them up), by using different springs, and by adjusting their preload with the two nuts. Once you have it where you want it you can loctite the nuts and then turning the allen bolt from the outside will not effect the power. The amount of preload on the spring, and the clear distance between the spring and hammer, is what changes both the power and the amount of hammer bounce.
    You'll know when you are getting there because the report on firing will sound quick and sharp, rather than 'farty'. If you have a moderator on it will be just as noticeable if not more so.
    This does meaning a few repeated teardowns/builds, but taking the time to get it right is rewarding.
    Have you also played with fitting top hats and rear guides for the hammer spring?

    It's something I've often thought of and maybe improve the refinement? Can't remember if I've seen references on the 'net or if people like G-Mac already offer them? So, once a spring and preload value has been arrived at, make those items to give the correct preload.

    Have you also tried polishing the hammer and the tube? Again, it's something that I haven't got round to, but may also help?
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Have you also played with fitting top hats and rear guides for the hammer spring?

    It's something I've often thought of and maybe improve the refinement? Can't remember if I've seen references on the 'net or if people like G-Mac already offer them? So, once a spring and preload value has been arrived at, make those items to give the correct preload.

    Have you also tried polishing the hammer and the tube? Again, it's something that I haven't got round to, but may also help?
    You can put a top hat and guide on the hammer spring - .22 short cases are good for this - as well as polish the hammer and tube, and it does make it smoother to cock, but it doesn't really address the issue of hammer bounce. That's not to say that a certain amount of balancing the valve and hammer springs won't reduce it somewhat, but it is made more difficult by the fact that you always need a certain amount of force against the valve spring in order to pierce the CO2 cartridge with the initial shot (unless you are bulk filling, but then if you are using a buddy bottle you have even more to gain from the SSG).
    The point of the SSG is to give negative preload, if you like, so that when at rest and uncocked the hammer spring is not in contract with the hammer at all, and the hammer spring is under preload. This means that when the hammer comes bouncing back off the valve pin after firing, it can't pick up enough energy from the hammer spring to knock the valve open again. It's difficult to get the same effect when the hammer is in contact with springs at both ends.
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  4. #19
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    Good info, Eyebull.
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  5. #20
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    if you look on the GTA forum you'll find pages og info on SSG's personally with the exterior adjusters and the way the power increases can be increased with the said adjusters then it makes it a grey area
    I've a walther barrelled 2300 and I've fitted walther barrels to 2250's and an outdoorsman a cp1

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by --ped-- View Post
    if you look on the GTA forum you'll find pages og info on SSG's personally with the exterior adjusters and the way the power increases can be increased with the said adjusters then it makes it a grey area
    I've a walther barrelled 2300 and I've fitted walther barrels to 2250's and an outdoorsman a cp1
    If you look at my posts above you'll see it's pretty easy to make these non-adjustable from the outside, so no grey area.

    The guys on the GTA forum did it as a matter of convenience, not because it inherently *has* to be externally adjustable.
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    if you look at the original ssg by Bob Sterne you'll see that the adjustment is needed to a degree and that they weren't designed for co2 more the big bore pcp's and was a means of getting the efficiency up
    on the original the preload was adjusted from the rear as was the distance between the hammer and spring guide
    personally think fitting a 2300 valve reducer and a short hammer spring and a power adjuster gets better results on co2

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by --ped-- View Post
    if you look at the original ssg by Bob Sterne you'll see that the adjustment is needed to a degree and that they weren't designed for co2 more the big bore pcp's and was a means of getting the efficiency up
    on the original the preload was adjusted from the rear as was the distance between the hammer and spring guide
    personally think fitting a 2300 valve reducer and a short hammer spring and a power adjuster gets better results on co2
    I've covered all of this.

    You have to adjust it when setting it up, but that's no different to fitting a new hammer spring set-up.
    They may have been originally designed for PCP, but a challenge was then issued on that forum to apply it to the 2240, which many did successfully.
    Fitting a 2300 valve reducer and new hammer spring and fitting a power adjuster sounds like rather more hassle, and more money, than making an SSG, which took me less than 20 minutes to make and fit including the time taken to disassemble and re-assemble a 2240.

    I'm getting 120 3.5FPE shots out of a 12g caplet [edit: in .177 too], and struggling to see where the big problem is with this.

    By all means give it a try.
    Last edited by eyebull; 15-04-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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  9. #24
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    yes I remember it and very few actually bothered to do it from what I remember
    I know how to make them and have made a few and I can turn a valve spacer up in a few mins , clip a hammer spring close and grind it and fit a disco rear tube cap (but could make a power adjuster from scratch)in the same time it takes you to make an SSG

  10. #25
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    Got to be honest I'm struggling to get it. One minute you're saying the SSG is no good because it can be adjusted externally (which it doesn't have to be), the next minute that you should fit an external power adjuster instead?
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  11. #26
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    I was under the impression that external power adjusters only adjusted power DOWN, not up?
    Last edited by harvey_s; 16-04-2019 at 08:37 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    Got to be honest I'm struggling to get it. One minute you're saying the SSG is no good because it can be adjusted externally (which it doesn't have to be), the next minute that you should fit an external power adjuster instead?
    I didn't say they were no good just that when you make one correctly(that can be fully optimized to get max efficiency) that it has external adjusters and as things are changed then power can be increased notably when the air gap is reduced between the ham,mer and spring power increases as a rule
    you must have missed the bit about using a clipped spring in conjunction with the power adjuster and reduced valve volume-at full adjustment it gives less than a standard hammer spring and the reduced valve lets less co2 out also

  13. #28
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    either way i can adapt the design to accommodate the power adjuster screw, as it is my first go lets just stick to the original design posted by eyeball..

    one question, i will have a tinker with the spring and length of bolt, but was curious as the the length of bolt you ended up using..

    will post pictures soon and maybe some results

    though i am also working on a brass chambering section - idea is to lap the muzzle and breech end of the barrel for smoother pellet transition and exit which i wanted to finish before doing any chrony work..


    cheers
    Andy

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewjames View Post

    one question, i will have a tinker with the spring and length of bolt, but was curious as the the length of bolt you ended up using..

    will post pictures soon and maybe some results

    though i am also working on a brass chambering section - idea is to lap the muzzle and breech end of the barrel for smoother pellet transition and exit which i wanted to finish before doing any chrony work..


    cheers
    Andy
    I can't recall offhand, if I have some time next week I will take it apart and measure it all up for you. I can tell you that when cocked the allen bolt protrudes from the rear 9mm (not including the head, but including the o-ring sitting under the head). When pulling the bolt back the hammer doesn't connect with the spring until over halfway through the stroke. You want the end of the spring guide sitting just inside the hammer.
    Bear in mind that my pistol is a .177 with a longer than standard barrel so you will have to fine tune it to .22 in (presumably?) standard barrel length.
    .22 should be more efficient, but I don't know if that will be cancelled out by the shorter barrel.

    Lapping/re-crowning the barrel is a very good idea, Crosman leave them a bit rough. To crown I put them in the chuck of a drill ('the poor mans lathe') and use carbide bits, files and wet 'n dry to dress the muzzle.
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