Happy to be fishing and shooting
Looking to purchase a 2 band .451 Parker Hale volunteer, been told to try and get a original Parker Hale Birmingham one, what’s the tell tale signs of a Birmingham made rifle compared to a euroarms etc any information would help and gratefully received.
There is no such thing as a dangerous gun, there are dangeruous people though
Banned
A genuine Parker-Hale rifle will be stamped Parker-Hale Birmingham Cal.451" on the left-hand side of the breech, and bear Birmingham proof marks. It will also have a four-digit serial number. It will have the Parker-Hale logo on the right-hand side of the butt.Originally Posted by markreid
When you get it, take a look at world-champion shooter and MLAGB comps secretary David Minshall's articles on his research press website - 'Shooting the Enfield'.
One more thing - DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF A SUBSTITUTE PROPELLANT [PYRODEX RS, TRIPLE 7 ET AL] - the results will be unmitigated shite.
And join the MLAGB.
PS - When you get it, please PM me with the serial number - Mr Minshall is keeping a record of P-H serials
Happy to be fishing and shooting
Many thanks for the info, the one I was looking at wasn't a Birmingham gun, do have emailed the chap concerned explaining why I believe his gun isn't a genuine Parker hale Birmingham gun, so still looking, know of one but they want silly money for it .
There is no such thing as a dangerous gun, there are dangeruous people though
Banned
Selling a non-Birmingham gun as the real deal is an offence - it's called fraud, although perhaps here in UK it is acceptable practice. Note that early Euroarms guns DID have P-H barrels.
While not engaged in any way with P-H, except as a customer, I am more than familiar with the take-over of their assets by EuroArms/Navy Arms, and the acquisition by them of a number of barrels in all calibres and lengths. This enables them to cash in on the famous name and reputation of P-H, without having to have done much work, but eventually they ran out and home-grown Italian barrels will have had to be made. They will, of course, bear Italian proof marks -
1. the miniature coat of arms of Gardone Val Trompia in Brescia - location of the Italian State proof house.
2. the letters PN - Pulvore nero - black powder.
3. A small square cartouche containing either Roman numbers [unlikely, given the age of this series] or a two-letter code - far more likely. The wood will probably be superior to that of the original P-H, too, which was nothing to write home about, TBH.
4. the words EuroArms or even, if early versions, Navy Arms - now both defunct.
5. the serial numbers for all of the Volunteer and other types are gotten from the Muzzle Loader's Assn of Great Britain - 28 Jan, 2010
0000 to ~9000 made in Birmingham
~9000 to 14000 Birmingham barrels, rest made in Italy
>14000 Italian made.
Happily, Kranks have a lot spares of most parts, but you would be well-advised to make your first buy from Peter Dyson, maker of the platinum nipple. I've had one on an original P-H for over 30 years now - the OE item will last a whole competition of thirty shots, but after that, you might find that the hammer is blowing back on you - disconcerting to say the least. £120 might seem a lot of money for one small item, but buying three or four a year of the copper-beryllium versions might prove to be a false economy, given the fiver shipping every time on top of the tenner or so for the thing itself.
The .451 bullet mould by Lyman - that you should get with the gun - it originally did so - comes with a push-through sizer too. In any case Pedersoli make a very spiffy plunge-sizer unit that works VERY well. You can see Bálasz Németh using it on his Youtube channel capandball - one of the best on youtube. Also Rob over in Canada on britishmuzzleloaders goes through the whole deal of shooting the Enfield with some unmissable advice.
Ans PLEASE don't try to shoot it with round ball, patched or otherwise - it has a ROT of around 1:22 or so, and has to be shot with a long and heavy bullet. Remember too, that these are not really short range arms, and the bullet settles down at around 200 yards or so, right out to 800 - the extreme range at which the standard-sighted versions are shot. Tang sights are really better on the three-band versions, which has a good six inches longer sight radius to take advantage right out to 1200 yards. Loads for your rifle hover between 70 and 90gr of Swiss #2 - far better than Kranks' concoction. It is a deal more expensive, but its cleaner-burning and a lot more efficient. 70gr is a good starting load for short ranges out to about 500 yards only, but you'll have a deal of work cut out for you to make even that short distance with any degree of repeatable accuracy. 90gr is going to sting, especially from prone, but it's a fact of life that long-range BP shooters get used to , or take up stamp-collecting.
BTW, what do YOU call 'silly money'?
Last edited by tacfoley; 01-11-2019 at 05:07 PM.
Happy to be fishing and shooting
Many thanks again, the one I was looking at did have Parker Hale Birmingham stamped on top of the barrel, and had Henry rifling .451 on left hand side of barrel and a five digit serial number, spoke to the guy explained why I wouldn’t be purchasing it and gave him the relevant info to come to the conclusion it was probably a euroarms made gun.
the original one i found a few months ago, kranks had it. Having made a enquiry with them and seeing Parker Hale listed on their web site , the add states in three places manafacrured by Parker Hale £935 or somewhere near that, when I got a reply from them the price went to £1300 , when I questioned the price difference compared to the web site, I was told this one is original Parker Hale. I told him the one one the web site states manafactured by Parker Hale, the bloke told me no they are euroarms replicas so I questioned why they where being advertised as Parker Hale and there was no mention of euroarms on the website , never got a reply . I would have paid the original price but to me it was hiking the price up or not advertising the gun correctly, either way I won’t purchase a Parker Hale from kranks.
There is no such thing as a dangerous gun, there are dangeruous people though
Banned
As you can see from my post, which is based on factory figures, and not imagination, a FIVE-figure gun MAY have had a Parker-Hale barrel, especially with the other markings on it as well. THE test is to see the PROOF MARKS of the Birmingham proof house - AND a number below 9000.
There is one such rifle in my local dealers - PM me for details.
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