Diana 430L observations

[jonnyone]

Another quick read through this thread reminded me that I have the Diana 440TH in the rack upstairs. This would appear to be a truncated version of the Diana 470TH- which I also have.
I haven't really checked or taken that much notice but I'm guessing that these actions are based around the 460 Mag actions? The 470 I have here is a 7j import from SWS and is typically very throttled back, whilst the 440 was bought off here and is UK spec in .177 and is again wouldn't win a one finger cocking competition any day of the week and is very snappy but accurate in its manners.
I haven't checked but I'm now wondering if the 470 is based on the 460 Mag whereas the 440 could simply be a 430 with muzzle weight and thumbhole stock?
I know one thing for sure, Diana missed a trick by not bluing the actions on the TH range- I'm no fan of the coating they put on them and think they would be far more handsome with traditional bluing.
Question to you Steve. Is the 440TH a model commonly available over in the states? It appears to have been dropped from the range over here despite in my mind being better balanced than the 470TH?
Dave

[sd5782]

Another quick read through this thread reminded me that I have the Diana 440TH in the rack upstairs. This would appear to be a truncated version of the Diana 470TH- which I also have.
I haven't really checked or taken that much notice but I'm guessing that these actions are based around the 460 Mag actions? The 470 I have here is a 7j import from SWS and is typically very throttled back, whilst the 440 was bought off here and is UK spec in .177 and is again wouldn't win a one finger cocking competition any day of the week and is very snappy but accurate in its manners.
I haven't checked but I'm now wondering if the 470 is based on the 460 Mag whereas the 440 could simply be a 430 with muzzle weight and thumbhole stock?
I know one thing for sure, Diana missed a trick by not bluing the actions on the TH range- I'm no fan of the coating they put on them and think they would be far more handsome with traditional bluing.
Question to you Steve. Is the 440TH a model commonly available over in the states? It appears to have been dropped from the range over here despite in my mind being better balanced than the 470TH?
Dave

I am not really an expert on lots of the modern Dianas here in the USA. It seems though that we don't see some of the variations that are available overseas. Posts often reference catalog items that show European guns that we can't get. Sometimes a distributor, or someone with connections to the company gets some imported. It is all about dollars I guess, so we didn't get the 280 as all Americans seem to want is stuff that is powerful. Oh well.

As to your 440TH, I looked, and it does indeed seem to be based on the 340L, and surely the 470 must be based on the 460 as is that 98K that is out now. Quite curious that you have the long stroke 470 at low power and the 440 tuned up. I bet that you would like them reversed. One fun thing about Diana though is that they are not afraid to try different configurations on the same platform like one might see when buying a car. This is a great marketing move as it keeps discussions and interest elevated. This also keeps us airgun addicted crazies on the lookout for ones we don't have. I don't care for that matte finish either. I have a 31Professional in 22 which has the large heavy muzzle weight on the carbine length barrel with that finish.

Also curious is that Diana here in the US have traditionally been priced perhaps 25% less than an HW. For even money like I read is what it is in England, I would probably buy an HW most every time. Too bad that the pricing there wasn't better, as it seems like the market would be decent.

[Geezer]

I am not really an expert on lots of the modern Dianas here in the USA. It seems though that we don't see some of the variations that are available overseas. Posts often reference catalog items that show European guns that we can't get. Sometimes a distributor, or someone with connections to the company gets some imported. It is all about dollars I guess, so we didn't get the 280 as all Americans seem to want is stuff that is powerful. Oh well.

As to your 440TH, I looked, and it does indeed seem to be based on the 340L, and surely the 470 must be based on the 460 as is that 98K that is out now. Quite curious that you have the long stroke 470 at low power and the 440 tuned up. I bet that you would like them reversed. One fun thing about Diana though is that they are not afraid to try different configurations on the same platform like one might see when buying a car. This is a great marketing move as it keeps discussions and interest elevated. This also keeps us airgun addicted crazies on the lookout for ones we don't have. I don't care for that matte finish either. I have a 31Professional in 22 which has the large heavy muzzle weight on the carbine length barrel with that finish.

Also curious is that Diana here in the US have traditionally been priced perhaps 25% less than an HW. For even money like I read is what it is in England, I would probably buy an HW most every time. Too bad that the pricing there wasn't better, as it seems like the market would be decent.

I’m pretty sure the 430 and 440 use the same action.

The 460 and 470 use a longer one.

Diana’s stated velocity figures for the US-spec 430/440 are 870 FPS in .177”, 670 in .22”. So about 11-14 ft-lbs, similar to the 34 (etc) break-barrels.

For the 470, the figures are 1120 and 890. So 19-25 ft-lbs.

They list the 460 at 1200 and 1000fps. So up to 31 ft-lbs. However, tests I’ve seen by actual shooters usually return max energy figures around 23-25 ft-lbs.

[sd5782]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I did some very limited accuracy shooting with the 430L. I cleaned the barrel vigorously first, and didn't really wait long enough for it to settle in before testing. After setting it aside with about 25 discouraging shots and scope adjustments, I picked it up again for 2 ten shot groups that were 1/2 inch at 22 yards off sandbags with AA Express and AA Fields. I think it will be a shooter, and I really do like the feel of the stock on this gun. At 10.4 fpe the shot cycle is nice and cocking while still stout is quite manageable. Lessen relearned: let the barrel settle in after cleaning and tuning, and also, some scopes need a couple shots to settle in after adjustment.

[TonyL]

Re the "stout" cocking effort on these guns, I seem to remember it being pointed out on here a few years ago (maybe by Bigtoe?) that this was due to the cocking fulcrum geometry?????

[jonnyone]

Re the "stout" cocking effort on these guns, I seem to remember it being pointed out on here a few years ago (maybe by Bigtoe?) that this was due to the cocking fulcrum geometry?????

I think I recall his views on it as well and he's right. I know very little of physics but I don't think the linkage design of the Dianas offer the best mechanical advantage possible. And if you then carbine it in .177 for example this makes for a bit of a bullworker apparatus.
But if you are not man enough for a Diana just step away is the answer
But perseverance brings its rewards....
Dave

[Barryg]

Another quick read through this thread reminded me that I have the Diana 440TH in the rack upstairs. This would appear to be a truncated version of the Diana 470TH- which I also have.
I haven't really checked or taken that much notice but I'm guessing that these actions are based around the 460 Mag actions? The 470 I have here is a 7j import from SWS and is typically very throttled back, whilst the 440 was bought off here and is UK spec in .177 and is again wouldn't win a one finger cocking competition any day of the week and is very snappy but accurate in its manners.
I haven't checked but I'm now wondering if the 470 is based on the 460 Mag whereas the 440 could simply be a 430 with muzzle weight and thumbhole stock?
I know one thing for sure, Diana missed a trick by not bluing the actions on the TH range- I'm no fan of the coating they put on them and think they would be far more handsome with traditional bluing.
Question to you Steve. Is the 440TH a model commonly available over in the states? It appears to have been dropped from the range over here despite in my mind being better balanced than the 470TH?
Dave

Just to clarify the 460/470th/98 have the same action and the 430/430L/430 stutzen and 440th have the same action

[jonnyone]

Just to clarify the 460/470th/98 have the same action and the 430/430L/430 stutzen and 440th have the same action

I guessed you would know the answer on that one Barry
I do wonder if the 430 is in effect a fixed barrel version of the D280?
Almost in a similar way to the D45 and D50T01 having the same power plant and the 50 almost being the fixed barrel version of the 45?
Possibly a little bit of history repeating with the difference of course is that we now have more efficient loading arrangements on the fixed barrel version.
Though the 430 can still be had from some outlets here it's another gun that doesn't seem to have fulfilled it's sales potential and could be another collectable gun of the future. Particularly in Stutzen guise perhaps.
Dave

[Drew451]

I guessed you would know the answer on that one Barry
I do wonder if the 430 is in effect a fixed barrel version of the D280?
Almost in a similar way to the D45 and D50T01 having the same power plant and the 50 almost being the fixed barrel version of the 45?
Possibly a little bit of history repeating with the difference of course is that we now have more efficient loading arrangements on the fixed barrel version.
Though the 430 can still be had from some outlets here it's another gun that doesn't seem to have fulfilled it's sales potential and could be another collectable gun of the future. Particularly in Stutzen guise perhaps.
Dave

Morning, Dave. The 430 and 280 don't have much in common apart from the fact they are both designed to operate at the 12fpe limit or thereabouts. They don't share the same powerplant, though, as far as pistons go anyway.

[Barryg]

Morning, Dave. The 430 and 280 don't have much in common apart from the fact they are both designed to operate at the 12fpe limit or thereabouts. They don't share the same powerplant, though, as far as pistons go anyway.

Just to add the 430 has the same piston as the 52 and 460.

[jonnyone]

Good knowledge coming out here on these guns. I've been enlightened that the 280/430 are not in any way related and now that the 430 shares it's piston with the 460 and 52 models. That's surprising since I would have thought that the other two are Magnum type springers whereas the 430 (it would seem) is only really designed for moderate European power levels?
I've often wondered why Diana didn't consider a range of smaller tube/piston guns such as the HW 30/26 mm tubes in order that they(Diana) can produce sweeter guns at the lower power levels in the same manner as HW do with their 95/99 series guns.
I guess cost is the main reason by trying to keep these low by not varying material sizes/specs? There can also be a lot of commonality of parts this way also.....
Dave

[Drew451]

Good knowledge coming out here on these guns. I've been enlightened that the 280/430 are not in any way related and now that the 430 shares it's piston with the 460 and 52 models. That's surprising since I would have thought that the other two are Magnum type springers whereas the 430 (it would seem) is only really designed for moderate European power levels?
I've often wondered why Diana didn't consider a range of smaller tube/piston guns such as the HW 30/26 mm tubes in order that they(Diana) can produce sweeter guns at the lower power levels in the same manner as HW do with their 95/99 series guns.
I guess cost is the main reason by trying to keep these low by not varying material sizes/specs? There can also be a lot of commonality of parts this way also.....
Dave

Yes, costs and commonality of parts, namely pistons. Re. 25mm Dianas: the Model 27 ran 25mm dia. tubes, as did the early 24/26/28 series. The 24 etc then switched to the common 28mm Diana format. I would also say that even the 25mm 24's were not ideally configured as they ran an unnecessarily heavy piston it's their small format and very short stroke. I think piston weight is key rather than the diameter of it. I would consider the 27 probably the best with regarding stroke/ piston weight/ spring rating. Yet a good, standard 24 is in no way disgraced when shot back to back with a 27 in my opinion. I really need to get to grips with an early 26 or 28 some day.
Sorry for slight tangent.