Most farmers have to have access to computers, as most of the DEFRA stuff is done online, so either they or their families should be able to access the forms (if the site actually works)Originally Posted by Spanner.
Registered User
Post 175:
I have seen for a while now the gradual shift of public opinion with regard to the "General License" or "General Shooting" for want of a better term. It is very difficult to complain against someone shooting a 10metre Olympic discipline but somebody "killing things", well the tree huggers/snowflakes, call them what you will but it appears to me that they are the squeaky wheel in this equation. And they make more headlines than we, the shooters do. The shooting community makes headlines for all the wrong reasons.As I said earlier. His action has been spurred on by people shooting birds for no other reason than ‘because I can’ under the wide umbrella of the general license. To be honest he does have a point and NE have been legally caught with their pants down.
It is also true that many of us keep our heads down for fear of losing our tickets, so we are shafted if we do, shafted if we don't. For many many years shooters right have been eroded, quietly and inexorably leading to the end of gun ownership as we know it.
We need to quietly work towards educating the people who can make a difference and sadly, this means financing BASC the Gamekeepers organisations the SACS and others. Sadly? because we all know that within these organisations there are people with their own agenda.
It's a mess. And a couple of Crows hanging from the Packham persons gate is not helpful. I have struggled with this and although I am no conspiracy theorist, I am not wholly convinced and a small voice in the back of my head is telling me that it could quite well be the Packham persons co-conspirators.
An Emergency on your part doesn't necessarily mean an Emergency on my part!
Registered User
Most farmers have to have access to computers, as most of the DEFRA stuff is done online, so either they or their families should be able to access the forms (if the site actually works)
Banned
If you had seen some of the idiotic replies on social media that I have you'd wonder. I found one that suggested this either wasn't the first time or that should be what should or would happen this time. You can do a bit of digging on those sort of posts and unless someone has gone to huge lengths it would suggest at least their opinions are real. Unfortunately I think it's more likely some idiot just saw this as justification to be an idiot. It probably backs up the idea that some birds are not dispatch out of need but because some create some justification to themselves that it's needed. This is utterly different to legitimate pest control which is discussed by those that brought the case below. It's probably worth a read for those genuinely interested:
https://www.newscientist.com/article...-wood-pigeons/
But no-one has to, it makes a nice perfect storm to say that someone living in France working for the BBC has ruined things, even though that it's not factually accurate, but who cares about that these days, except when it affects them.
Banned
It's a mess. And a couple of Crows hanging from the Packham persons gate is not helpful. I have struggled with this and although I am no conspiracy theorist, I am not wholly convinced and a small voice in the back of my head is telling me that it could quite well be the Packham persons co-conspirators.
This is what was thinking !
Mike
6 million dollar bodge
Does Chris Packham live in France or does he just have a house there? From what I’ve read he still lives in the new forest.
Anyway, that’s a mute point to be honest.
Registered User
Interview with Mark Avery on Radio 4 Farming Today - I’ve a slightly different perspective now. Was he speaking the truth? You decide.
Here’s a piece on the interview from Fieldsports Channel
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Farming Today programme on 25 April, Packham’s Wild Justice colleague Mark Avery said he was as surprised as the shooters by Natural England’s action. He said Wild Justice had asked for the General Licences to end in January 2020. He said he accepted that farmers needed to shoot pigeons but questioned whether gamekeepers should carry out pest control to benefit Gamebirds. “We totally accept where landowners… and farmers… should be able to shoot birds that are causing them problems,” Avery told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme the same morning. “We don’t have any problem with that happening in a regulated manner.”
Registered User
Completely wrong my friend. I am 58 years of age and started shooting airguns at the age of about 16 In the fields of kent. My first decent rifle was a .22 HW35 purchased brand new by my late father back In 1977. This rifle I still have. I then moved on to shotguns and then to rimfire about 15 years ago and still do a bit of pest control today
God created man and god created woman
Sam colt made them equal
Registered User
He was on radio 2 yesterday with the head man from the NFU & I have to say he was so reasonable it was hard to find fault with anything he said, he actually apologised for any problems caused to farmers by NE withdrawing the GL at such short notice.
Banned
Dunno if he has both still. It's moot granted, but it's one of the things that's been used to camoflague the point. He has a house in the New Forest on the Hythe side for certain. Not that it matters either way.
Registered User
I have distanced myself, some years ago, from social media. I find there is nothing "social" about it so I bow to your knowledge. Which just re-enforces my wish to keep well away from it. I have to deal with various branches of the Clampett family on a day to day basis so God knows what they are like behind a keyboard without borders! Whoever did the Crow thing clearly has no boundaries either. I would lock them up myself and I can say without hesitation that I consider the Packham person a deceitful, contemptible, despicable man.If you had seen some of the idiotic replies on social media that I have you'd wonder. I found one that suggested this either wasn't the first time or that should be what should or would happen this time. You can do a bit of digging on those sort of posts and unless someone has gone to huge lengths it would suggest at least their opinions are real. Unfortunately I think it's more likely some idiot just saw this as justification to be an idiot.
I have other words to describe him but I am trying not to sink to his level.
An Emergency on your part doesn't necessarily mean an Emergency on my part!
Registered User
The anti shooting agenda, in the media, in schools, and elsewhere, has been allowed to spout on as long as it like. The gun bans, the Fox Hunting ban, they have been winning for years.
What really gets me is they have not invested anything into the Countryside. Done nothing for Wildlife management. RSBSB and a few headline projects don't do much, too small, and bring their own issues. Most increase human footfall which wildlife hate.
Agricultural Practices have done nothing but keep food stuffs cheap; heck the farmers don't make money from it considering the size of the industry. At best its a low return on investment and much just pays pensions. Wildlife comes off tenth best. A very few farmers do their best but have to compete so limited to what they can do.
Shooting and hunting sports do far more than anyone else.
Where Shooting and hunting shorts has failed is to argue that what they do is normal, is positive, and inclusive.
Just look at the ant's class war agenda that those who hunt or shoot are Toff's. That somehow killing in the act of hunting is wrong or any different to a slaughter house.
First off hunting and taking a natural bounty is natural and been done since human's beginning. Not doing so is new and weird.
Second, those who hunt, shoot, or fish, come from all walks of life. Sure some can be expensive, but some reflects the efforts needed to ensure the bounty, the conservation and effort to exist. But no one is excluded as it couldn't work without everyone to cover the vast areas that need managing. There is cheap sport for all. Pigeon Shooting is some of the best sport ever and does an important job, and anyone who asks a farmer nicely can get stuck in. Its Sport, its Vermin Control, and lots just taste good.
Third, Country pursuits put the cash in to manage the Countryside; no one else puts as much effort in.
Fourth, few farmers can do the pest control without help. Farms just don't have the man power, and anyhow the Country pursuits are part of the social make up of it all.
Lastly, good education and best practices are used. Sure there is the odd dick, but they soon get educated, put right. The vast majority have great respect and do it with real professionalism, expertise, because they want to do it well. They are responsible; there is real passion too..
So time the anti's were seen as what they are. Weird and thoughtless. They preach but don't actually put anything back. They think that if nature is left to its own devices it will just happen. Well the truth is that if the natural way is allowed then human's will just concrete the lot.
What we have doesn't just happen, its taken great effort and Shooters have been at the forefront of conservation. Time we stood up for what we do, for we do a good thing.
Registered User
this is all confusing to me -- so can I still hunt pigeon for food --
Registered User
It seems a revised general license will be published Monday. In the meantime, if you are desperate, you can fill out the forms here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ertain-species
These are some weird forms too - they seem to require a genuine Adobe Acrobat install. WTF.
Unless you are desperate - I think it may be better to wait until Monday.
Guest
I had to update my Pdf reader to view them also .
Adobe acrobat reader DC was what I used .
The form is set out different from below but when you copy it like I have it does not come out the way the form is in it original format . this is just one of the licenses as they are broken up into different reasons for applying for a license .
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended)
Application to Control Certain Wild Bird Species (19-03)
To kill or take certain species of wild birds and their nests and
eggs, in order to prevent serious damage
Wildlife Licensing
Natural England
Horizon House
Deanery Road
Bristol, BS1 5AH.
T. 020802 61089
· Complete all relevant sections of the form as failure to do so may result in
delay to your application;
· Sufficient information should be given to enable Natural England to assess the
application;
· It is the applicant's responsibility to obtain the owner or occupier's permissions
to act under licence on their property;.
· Sign the application (the person applying should sign the form) or tick the box
if completing electronically; and
· Return the application form to the address shown or email to
birds2019@naturalengland.org.uk.
PART 1 - Applicant's Personal and Contact Details
Title:
(eg, Mr, Mrs,
Miss, Ms)
Forenames: Surname:
Address:
Postcode:
Location of the
land over which
control will occur
(full address
including
postcode):
Daytime telephone number: Mobile number:
Have you received the owner/occupier's permission to apply?
Is the applicant the owner/occupier of the land?
Name of business:
Email address:
Grid reference in XX123456
format:
Yes No
Yes No
General Licence Notification Form Serious Damage or Disease - 19-03 (version April 2019 Page 2 of 6
Please tick the box below that most closely describes the land use of the land identified for control:
Urban
Industrial / Commercial
Agriculture - Crops
Agriculture - Livestock
Agriculture - Other
Forestry
Other:
PART 2 - Purpose for Control: Preventing Serious Damage
Species to be controlled Licensible activity
Crow Corvus corone Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
PART 3 - Species to be controlled
Please select the species to be controlled, the intended activity and the proposed technique for the control:
Livestock:
Foodstuffs for livestock:
Crops:
Vegetables:
Fruit:
Growing timber:
Fisheries:
Inland waters:
Please provide details of the damage being incurred. Note that damage must related to an economic interest
and be serious, which means more than mere nuisance, minor damage or normal business risk. Include details
of the extent and nature of damage and how this is being caused by the species which you are applying to
control:
General Licence Notification Form Serious Damage or Disease - 19-03 (version April 2019 Page 3 of 6
PART 4 - Alternative non-lethal methods tried and tested
Have you tried any alternative methods of preventing the serious damage? Yes No
Species to be controlled Licensible activity
Collared Dove Streptopelia decaocto Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Lesser Black-backed Gull Larus fuscus Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Jackdaw Corvus monedula Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Jay Garrulus glandarius Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Magpie Pica pica Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Feral Pigeon Columba livia Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Rook Corvus frugilegus Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Woodpigeon Columba palumbus Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Canada Goose Branta canadensis Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Monk Parakeet Myiopsitta monachus Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Ring-necked Parakeet Psittacula krameri Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Egyptian Goose Alopochen aegyptiacus Kill, injure or take
Take, damage or destroy the nest
Take, damage or destroy eggs
Note that in considering whether or not to grant a licence, Natural England needs to be satisfied that there
is no satisfactory alternative solution to resolving the problem.
General Licence Notification Form Serious Damage or Disease - 19-03 (version April 2019 Page 4 of 6
Please identify from the list below the applicable techniques that you have considered and
attempted, and explain how these have been ineffective or impractical. Note that in considering
whether or not to grant a licence, Natural England needs to be satisfied that there is no satisfactory
alternative solution to resolving the problem.
Alternative Methods Details of how the technique
has been considered or used
Details of how the technique has
been ineffective or impractical
Visual deterrents
Auditory deterrents
Physical barriers, ie, proofing, exclusion
Human disturbance
Shooting to scare
Restricting access to food supply
Crop management, i.e. planting
sacrificial crops, Spring-sown crops
Animal husbandry and management, ie,
checking and removing sick animals
Habitat management, ie, for outdoor reared
livestock
Modification of roost/loafing areas, ie, of the
birds considered to be causing the problem
Other, as specified:
Please note that it is a condition of the licence that reasonable endeavours must continue to be made to
resolve the problem using appropriate lawful methods.
PART 5 - Consents
With the exception of WML-CL25 (To permit the diversionary feeding of hen harrier (Circus cyaneus) on
grouse moors in northern England), a licence is not permission from Natural England for an activity that
could damage a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI). The notification documents for each SSSI contain
a list of operations that could damage its special features and for which prior permission from Natural
England is required. Owners and occupiers of sites notified as SSSIs are required to give written notice to
Natural England before beginning any of these operations, or allowing someone else to carry out these
activities. A similar process applies for public bodies and statutory undertakers (as defined under Section
28G of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended)) and this obligation applies even where the
operations are carried out on land outside of the SSSI. See Gov.uk for further information.
In considering whether to issue consent or assent for activities on a SSSI that is a European Site, in other
words a Special Protection Area (SPA) or Special Area of Conservation (SAC), Natural England will
consider whether there is likely to be a significant effect on features of European importance (alone or in
combination) and carry out a Habitats Regulations Assessment, as required.
To identify SSSIs, European Sites and the features for which they are designated, refer to
www.magic.gov.uk. Consult the SSSI citation for details of `operations likely to damage', and consider
whether your activity is likely to have an impact. Advice may be sought from the local adviser for the SSSI:
https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...atural-england.
Information on a variety of recognised non-lethal control techniques is available here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prevent-...rm-or-business
General Licence Notification Form Serious Damage or Disease - 19-03 (version April 2019 Page 5 of 6
Have you or anyone using this licence been convicted of any wildlife-related or animal welfare offence?
Yes No
If `YES', please give details,
including dates
Using and sharing your information
The data controller is Natural England, Foss House, Kings Pool, 1 - 2 Peasholme Green, York YO1 7PX.
Your information will be stored and processed in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. This Act
gives you, as an individual, the right to know what data we hold on you, how we use it, with whom we share
it and for it to be accurate. It will be used for processing your application.
Natural England or its appointed agents may use the name, address and other details on your application
form to contact you in connection with occasional customer research aimed at improving the services that
Natural England provides to you.
We will respect personal privacy, whilst complying with access to information requests to the extent
necessary to enable Natural England to comply with its statutory obligations under the GDPR/Data
Protection Act 2018, or a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 or
Environmental Information Regulations 2004.
If you believe that any of the information we hold concerning you is incorrect or out of date, please provide
us with the accurate information in writing together with supporting evidence (if appropriate). You should
address your correspondence to: Wildlife Licensing, Natural England, Horizon House, Deanery Road,
Bristol, BS1 5AH; Tel. 020 802 61089; Email birds2019@naturalengland.org.
Declaration
· I have read and understood the guidance provided in this application form. I declare that the
particulars given are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief, and I apply to be registered for a
licence in accordance with these particulars.
· Where required, I undertake to obtain permission from landowners/occupiers of land to exercise any
licence resulting from this application, and to allow any employee or representative of Natural
England to monitor or inspect the work described in this application.
Name in
BLOCK
LETTERS
For applications submitted electronically, please either insert an electronic signature above
or tick this box to confirm agreement with this declaration
Signature of Date:
applicant:
PART 6 - Declaration
General Licence Notification Form Serious Damage or Disease - 19-03 (version April 2019 Page 6 of 6
Important Advice
· Natural England can modify or revoke at any time any licence that may be issued but this will
not be done unless there are good reasons for doing so.
· Any notification for a licence is likely to be revoked immediately if it is discovered that false
information had been provided which resulted in the registration for a licence.
· Under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, any person who in order to obtain a licence
knowingly or recklessly makes a statement or representation, or furnishes a document or
information which is false in a material particular, shall be guilty of an offence and may be
liable to criminal prosecution. Any person found guilty of such an offence may be liable to an
unlimited fine.
v Please ensure that you have answered all relevant questions fully and have signed the declaration.
v If you wish to change the information on this form contact Wildlife Licensing, Natural England.
Last edited by bighit; 26-04-2019 at 01:24 PM.
Banned
I'm not that actually stands scrutiny either way.
On both sides of the point there's a complete lack of objectivity, reflection and supporting qualified opinion, from some quarters. The irony is that on a lot of ground, both sides, if taken at their word, agree. I am not sure why one side should be thought of as having less integrity or qualification than another unless there is actual evidence to support that view.
Last edited by RobF; 26-04-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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