Victoria Derbyshire

[Fronteria]

Trying to get airgun law changed.
On New 24 now.

[gingernut]

Doubt many watch her.

[MartynB]

Changed in what respect ?

[peterd8877]

Not for the better I presume.

[Fronteria]

The mother of a child who was killed was on the Victoria Derbyshire show to get support for her case named Stanley’s law for licencing airguns and training of licence holders.
This is the incident in which the child was killed.
Albert Grannon, 78, was charged with manslaughter at Sheffield crown court. He initially told police the pellet must have ricocheted as he checked the air rifle, Albert Grannon admitted to manslaughter and possessing an adapted air rifle without a firearms certificate. at his home in Sproatley, east Yorkshire, last year.
Tragic but no law can cater for idiots doing dangerous things with anything, regardless of whether it’s an air rifle a car or anything else that can cause harm.

[Neil54]

Driving licences don't stop car accidents.
Why would anyone think licencing airguns would stop them.
Banning hand guns hasn't stopped hand gun offences.
It is always the minority that couldn't give a hoot.

[ElmerFudd.177]

This was the built in a shed airgun i think...

Elmer

[angrybear]

Trying to get airgun law changed.
On New 24 now.

Most of these programs have a contact on (un)social media, if you happen across an anti shooting feature you need to respond to them pointing out that laws already exist,
And while any incident is a tragedy, new laws will have no effect when the existing laws are being ignored.

[wobbly bob]

Most of these programs have a contact on (un)social media, if you happen across an anti shooting feature you need to respond to them pointing out that laws already exist,
And while any incident is a tragedy, new laws will have no effect when the existing laws are being ignored.

Absolutely. I’m sure that we are all very much saddened by the incident, but the rifle that killed the little lad was at 16 ft.lb and required a licence, and the perpetrator, the boy’s great grandfather, was fully aware of the fact, but chose to ignore that, and every other aspect of gun safety.

But whilst I agree that it will probably make little difference in practice, I find it difficult to make out a case against training and licensing.

[TonyL]

The poor little lad's mum was on the local (Look North) breakfast news programme this morning. And I can understand her reaction but, like so many more thousands of people out there, will not have a grasp of how licensing or tightening laws any further will have changed anything.

As said previously, just about every law going relating to use, ownership and storage and safe handling advice were ignored.

I was talking to one of my customers about this earlier. A retired Chief Super-Intendant from the area concerned, Humberside Police. He was telling me that the great grand-father wasn't sure if it was loaded or not, so instead of any sensible checks, decided to aim it at the youngster and pull the trigger? Someone else had also mentioned that the man had dementia issues? Why didn't the family do anything about that?

My customer also fully agrees with the view that tightening laws any further or licensing airguns would serve only to punish the law abiding. After all, crims will break the law anyway, no matter how harsh or soft it may be.

Apparently the mum is trying to get a big petition together and plans to lobby Parlaiment. We need to have our house and voice in order ready for the ensuing onslaught. Hopefully plans are underfoot and ongoing already?

[wobbly bob]

He was telling me that the great grand-father wasn't sure if it was loaded or not, so instead of any sensible checks, decided to aim it at the youngster and pull the trigger?

All reports state that the family were well aware that he always kept it cocked and loaded and not secured. He shot the boy at a family gathering to commemorate the death of his own son.

He has steadfastly refused to explain what happened - even given a last opportunity at his trial.

Something pretty weird has gone on there. i feel we are not getting the full picture.

[TonyL]

Makes your blood boil.

So many wrongs on so many levels.

[NickG]

The poor little lad's mum was on the local (Look North) breakfast news programme this morning. And I can understand her reaction but, like so many more thousands of people out there, will not have a grasp of how licensing or tightening laws any further will have changed anything.

As said previously, just about every law going relating to use, ownership and storage and safe handling advice were ignored.

I was talking to one of my customers about this earlier. A retired Chief Super-Intendant from the area concerned, Humberside Police. He was telling me that the great grand-father wasn't sure if it was loaded or not, so instead of any sensible checks, decided to aim it at the youngster and pull the trigger? Someone else had also mentioned that the man had dementia issues? Why didn't the family do anything about that?

My customer also fully agrees with the view that tightening laws any further or licensing airguns would serve only to punish the law abiding. After all, crims will break the law anyway, no matter how harsh or soft it may be.

Apparently the mum is trying to get a big petition together and plans to lobby Parlaiment. We need to have our house and voice in order ready for the ensuing onslaught. Hopefully plans are underfoot and ongoing already?

I agree with all of the above , but I feel that we have a problem in that as we have no licensing, we have no accurate measure of how many law abiding safe users of air rifles there actually are in this country, there for a percentage figure for the tragic accidents can not be obtained ,I think it would be very small though even one death is too many in my opinion, The fact that in this case the rifle had been modified to increase its power is irrelevant as a legal 12 fpe rifle can kill, but accidents can and do happen in all walks of life . Education would be a far more effective method to keep people safe ,there is almost no training given at most gun clubs ,maybe that should change , and being a member of a club mandatory when buying an air rifle, to ensure that training happens. Just my two peneth

[bighit]

I agree with all of the above , but I feel that we have a problem in that as we have no licensing, we have no accurate measure of how many law abiding safe users of air rifles there actually are in this country, there for a percentage figure for the tragic accidents can not be obtained ,I think it would be very small though even one death is too many in my opinion, The fact that in this case the rifle had been modified to increase its power is irrelevant as a legal 12 fpe rifle can kill, but accidents can and do happen in all walks of life . Education would be a far more effective method to keep people safe ,there is almost no training given at most gun clubs ,maybe that should change , and being a member of a club mandatory when buying an air rifle, to ensure that training happens. Just my two peneth

I get what you are saying . The problem is that there is some clubs that have a waiting time for new members and no new clubs are springing up to alleviate that and that's before you use your being a member of a club mandatory.now if it's mandatory to be a club member there is going to be lots of genuine new owners told no they can't have one.


Also lots of new owners may be rural and the nearest club is 100s of miles away from them ,are they to be told "No your not getting one as you are not willing to drive 200 miles to the nearest gun club " even though they want to shoot vermin around the barns and so on.


They won't know up here how many airgun owners there are in Scotland (registered) until 2021 due to being allowed to hold them on a current SGC or FAC until renewal.

They claim there is 500.000 airguns up here and more than treble that down south .


The facts are that there is many up here that refuse to get a license. The same will happen down south. These people are not the type that shoot pet's either. They are people that don't agree with the licensing .

[angrybear]

I agree with all of the above , but I feel that we have a problem in that as we have no licensing, we have no accurate measure of how many law abiding safe users of air rifles there actually are in this country, there for a percentage figure for the tragic accidents can not be obtained ,I think it would be very small though even one death is too many in my opinion, The fact that in this case the rifle had been modified to increase its power is irrelevant as a legal 12 fpe rifle can kill, but accidents can and do happen in all walks of life . Education would be a far more effective method to keep people safe ,there is almost no training given at most gun clubs ,maybe that should change , and being a member of a club mandatory when buying an air rifle, to ensure that training happens. Just my two peneth

Sorry, you completely missed the point, it's not only relevant it's the most important fact

This bloke was knowingly in possession of an illegal section 1 firearm

Never mind education, training, insecure storage, the stupidity of keeping it loaded & god forbid pointing & shooting it towards his grandson, there has been a clear demonstration of repeated & deliberate criminal law breaking.

If there are already laws which make an action illegal & those are being ignored, what good are more laws the only people affected will be those who obey the laws currently in place.

To answer a point made above, in rural areas surely there's a strong case for firearm safety training to be a school subject given that most farms have at least a shotgun on site.