Diana 45/50T01 stock bushes

[jonnyone]

Having decided to refinish the scratched and dented stocks to a 45 Jubilee and a 50T01 at the same time it became necessary to remove the plastic stock bushings from both to ensure no damage to them from the solvents.
Now, I've always been curious as to why there appears to be two different type of bushes on these models. One larger than the other. And in this instance the 45J has what I would term standard bushes, but the 50T01 were smaller. I simply assumed they were different sizes. Until last night.
On taking apart the 50 stock I can see that for some reason Diana have actually drilled these with the wider shoulder "inside" the stock rather than from outside as I've mostly seen. This means by and large the stock bushes on both guns are basically the same but are driven into the stock from outside (in the case of the 45) and from inside in the case of the 50. Perhaps, unless you are familiar with the concept of Diana's cross pin arrangement none of this will make sense!
But I'm really confused how Diana went about setting up the manufacturing and machining of this arrangement in the stock of the 50 since it's far easier achieved with the wide shoulder section being on the outside not inside! In fact I have a sneaky feeling that the early guns had stocks with the bushings inserted from inside the stock and only then someone had the brainwave that the same arrangement could be achieved by reversing the wide shoulder and placing it on the outside.
Have any other collectors of older Dianas noticed this quirk?
Dave

[johnbaz]

Having decided to refinish the scratched and dented stocks to a 45 Jubilee and a 50T01 at the same time it became necessary to remove the plastic stock bushings from both to ensure no damage to them from the solvents.
Now, I've always been curious as to why there appears to be two different type of bushes on these models. One larger than the other. And in this instance the 45J has what I would term standard bushes, but the 50T01 were smaller. I simply assumed they were different sizes. Until last night.
On taking apart the 50 stock I can see that for some reason Diana have actually drilled these with the wider shoulder "inside" the stock rather than from outside as I've mostly seen. This means by and large the stock bushes on both guns are basically the same but are driven into the stock from outside (in the case of the 45) and from inside in the case of the 50. Perhaps, unless you are familiar with the concept of Diana's cross pin arrangement none of this will make sense!
But I'm really confused how Diana went about setting up the manufacturing and machining of this arrangement in the stock of the 50 since it's far easier achieved with the wide shoulder section being on the outside not inside! In fact I have a sneaky feeling that the early guns had stocks with the bushings inserted from inside the stock and only then someone had the brainwave that the same arrangement could be achieved by reversing the wide shoulder and placing it on the outside.
Have any other collectors of older Dianas noticed this quirk?
Dave

I have both guns and have had both apart but it was so long ago, I don't recall any difference!!

Looking at both pics now, The 45 bushes do look larger than the 50!!






The panel inserts and badge were missing off the Jubilee 45 when I bought it off here so i made walnut panels and glued them in!!


John

[Drew451]

Deep inside my anorak I found a notebook in which I read that the said through trigger dowel pin bushes on these came in two sizes at least. I mentioned it on a recent thread here.
I think I noticed some difference between said arrrangement on an Original 45 and an RWS45 when I had examples of both of these fine guns out together at some point, years ago. I think this may point to an early and later bush configuration but I'm not totally sure. I'll ponder this while I try to get to sleep again...

[jonnyone]

I have both guns and have had both apart but it was so long ago, I don't recall any difference!!

Looking at both pics now, The 45 bushes do look larger than the 50!!






The panel inserts and badge were missing off the Jubilee 45 when I bought it off here so i made walnut panels and glued them in!!


John

Morning John,
These are the very same guns I'm working on at present. I've stripped both stocks back to bare wood. In the case of the 50T01 the varnish is particularly obstinate.
There does appear to be two different sizes on your guns like mine. The 50 I'm working on is a .177 example and I'm sure the .22 example I have has the wide shoulder part on the outside. I'll double check and what I think could be enlightening could be the respective dates.
The reason I say this is I can't see Diana starting out production the easier way and drilling the widest part of the bushings on the outside and then deciding to make life difficult for themselves by swapping to drilling it from inside. There is not a great deal of room inside the inletting for the trigger and indeed it's a fiddly job putting the bushes back in place ready for reassembly.
I've tried to get inlay panels for this 45J too but they are simply not available nowadays.
I'm going to think of something to put in there as an alternative soon.
Best regards
Dave

[jonnyone]

Deep inside my anorak I found a notebook in which I read that the said through trigger dowel pin bushes on these came in two sizes at least. I mentioned it on a recent thread here.
I think I noticed some difference between said arrrangement on an Original 45 and an RWS45 when I had examples of both of these fine guns out together at some point, years ago. I think this may point to an early and later bush configuration but I'm not totally sure. I'll ponder this while I try to get to sleep again...

Morning Drew,
How's the head??!!
Yes I recall you found the same differences on these two guns some time ago. Interestingly in your case it was on the same gun model albeit different variants.
I pinged you some pics last evening of the stock bushing holes and of the bushes themselves if you could post them up here?
As I've said to John above I'm wondering if the different arrangements are date linked?
Do you know introduction date on the 45 and 50T01? Perhaps all early guns had the bushings pushed in from inside the stock inletting and all later guns reversed? That would be logical to me?
But with M&G not all things are logical and it wouldn't surprise me if it was found that there is a batch of guns mid production with the bushings inlet from inside
Dave

[DM80]

Iam sure the early 45's used the larger grommets and this type were pressed in from the outside of the stock I think these were prone to coming out or loose with use etc so on the later 45 and rws 45 and the 50 T01 the smaller grommets were fitted from the inside of the stock this way once the action was fitted into the stock the grommets had no were to go.

Dave.

[jonnyone]

Iam sure the early 45's used the larger grommets and this type were pressed in from the outside of the stock I think these were prone to coming out or loose with use etc so on the later 45 and rws 45 and the 50 T01 the smaller grommets were fitted from the inside of the stock this way once the action was fitted into the stock the grommets had no were to go.

Dave.

That appears to make perfect sense! The action itself holding them in place as there is no wiggle room there when fitted.
The grommets/ bushes that I took out of each stock other evening indicate that the smaller ones were pressed in from outside stock and the larger ones pressed from inside and hence they are different sizes (lengths).
A perfect example of a design/manufacturing change mid production
Dave

[johnbaz]

I also have a standard (Non Jubilee) Original 45 that has large bushes too, I bought an action too, Unfortunately the stock was already sold!!

The nut and washer were in this actual gun, A mate 'tuned' it years ago and it wouldn't latch upon cocking,, It was springbound!

There's an Ox spring in there too that was drowned in copper slip!, It was everywhere after I rebuilt the gun, I even had copper slip in my hair!!



John

[jonnyone]

I also have a standard (Non Jubilee) Original 45 that has large bushes too, I bought an action too, Unfortunately the stock was already sold!!

The nut and washer were in this actual gun, A mate 'tuned' it years ago and it wouldn't latch upon cocking,, It was springbound!

There's an Ox spring in there too that was drowned in copper slip!, It was everywhere after I rebuilt the gun, I even had copper slip in my hair!!



John

You gotta have a chuckle at what people will cram into the compression tube/ spring guide/ piston. And then get upset when gun locks up😂.

I find the 45 a real practical classic and it has just the right amount of swept volume to cruise at 12 ft llbs even in .177 but not so much that the firing cycle is pedestrian.

I have a .22 50T01 that has been swapped to synthetic seal, custom guides and top hat and it shoots sweet as can be and right on the limit. Despite playing second fiddle to the 45 it's bigger weight and heft makes it a joy to hunt with and it accounted for most of the squirrels I shot last summer.

I'm hoping that it's .177 compatriot will also be sweet to shoot though I suspect it will have to be tamed a little to be as nice as the .22.
Dave