...that cant be right,can it?

[the logun-ator]

got a 'rifle' in a bit back for a service/oring replacment/tune .as you lot may know i service quite a few,900+ over the last 9 years
anyhoo
didnt click on to start with,it was a precharged,long silencer and a shoulder stock fitted to a Artemis pp700sa running at 11.2ftlbs
hmm.nice little compact stumpy thing,but....its a pistol!
contacted the owner who said it was bought from a localish RFD/Gun shop,sold as a 'carbine'power set at just over 11.
surely you cant just stick a shoulder stock on a pistol and adjust it up to rifle power levels...can you??

[Benelli B76]

Think there is a total length requirement to qualify as a rifle so as to allow the higher energy output, others may know the dimensions, could be 600 mm ? The stock must not be easily removable.
I think the transfer ports are too large on the PP800 in pistol format and should be more like 2.3 mm diameter. The transfer port is very easy to change on the PP800 but no sure on the 700.

Baz

[PhatMan]

the logun-ator,

IIRC some Moon's ago, the police / Home Office tried to implement a sort of 'construction & use regulations' WRT some firearms.

IIRC, somebody was converting an AR15 rifle into a pistol, and the Police / Home Office claimed that as it started out as a rifle, it essentially always ways be a rifle.

It is the same stupidty of thinking as we have WRT short-barrelled shotguns - a gunsmith cannot cut a longer barrel down to size, but can make a barrel of the required length, even though the end result is the same.

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

[Hawkeye20]

Think there is a total length requirement to qualify as a rifle so as to allow the higher energy output, others may know the dimensions, could be 600 mm ? The stock must not be easily removable.
I think the transfer ports are too large on the PP800 in pistol format and should be more like 2.3 mm diameter. The transfer port is very easy to change on the PP800 but no sure on the 700.

Baz

The airarms TDR stock comes apart easy and as for length I don't think that counts either due to bull pups being incredibly short these days. Not much info on the whole topic tbh, bit of a dark area

[Shed tuner]

The airarms TDR stock comes apart easy

I didn't think it coudl be fired without the stock fitted though...

[Rapidnick]

The law here is generally called the 60 30 rule. This means the overall length to be classed as a rifle needs to be at least 60cm (24") and the barrel plus any FIXED moderator/shroud needs to be at least 30cm (12"). Arguments have revolved around the degree of permanence of shroud/moderator but it is usually pretty obvious.Needless to say it should not be possible to fire the gun in any shorter form to comply with 60:30. Folding guns like the TDR and-especially the Edgun Leshiy-do not fall foul of this rule as they can't work in shorter/ folded mode.

[Benelli B76]

The airarms TDR stock comes apart easy and as for length I don't think that counts either due to bull pups being incredibly short these days. Not much info on the whole topic tbh, bit of a dark area

600 mm (2ft) is very short for a rifle, get the tape measure and have a look!

[Benelli B76]

Thats why you can legally own the GSG "pistol" in UK..

[Geezer]

What the law calls “air weapons” are exempt from the 60/30 rule. It says so, in the act. (If it didn’t, Webley Trackers and Jackal AR7s would be section 5.)

So there is no hard and fast definition of what is it isn’t an air pistol. Only a court can decide in a particular case. Which would then become the law.

To be on the safe side, the manufacturers have ensured that things like the AA TDR and Leishy don’t work in a “pistol” configuration, and that things like the Crosman 2250 have the stock mounted in a way that means it can’t be removed with common hand tools.

To be clear, though, I would not touch the thing described by logun-ator with a barge pole. To me, it is obviously a pistol, and even if there is any doubt, there is a huge risk that a court would agree that it is indeed a pistol.

[ZAKDINGEL]

Its a pistol not a carbine ---with the stock fitted you can still fold it over and still fire it as a pistol ---There fore should only be shooting below the 6flb limit to be legal

[angrybear]

The serial number will return as either a pistol or rifle, at which point the argument is done & dusted.

once a pistol always a pistol.

[Benelli B76]

The serial number will return as either a pistol or rifle, at which point the argument is done & dusted.

once a pistol always a pistol.

So if Snowpeak market the Artemis PP700 SA with a folding stock as a rifle it will be fine at 11.2 ft.lb. ?

Baz

[angrybear]

So if Snowpeak market the Artemis PP700 SA with a folding stock as a rifle it will be fine at 11.2 ft.lb. ?

Baz

Anyone can market anything, but for it to be legal in any specific country it must correspond to ALL the laws of that country.

Here in the UK an air "rifle" with a folding stock that can be fired single handed, as a pistol, with no shoulder stock is illegal if over 6fpe, because of the pistol bit.

A prime example of the legal requirement is the Hatsan AT-P2, with the stock fitted it could be a "carbine" but because the stock is removable to make it useable in "pistol" format it was limited to 6fpe.
A "rifle" is a shoulder fired weapon.

There is no such thing as a "section 1" air pistol over 6fpe, in the manner of LBP/LBR, if it's over 6fpe & can be shot as a pistol, under UK law it becomes a section 5 prohibited weapon.

[Benelli B76]

Anyone can market anything, but for it to be legal in any specific country it must correspond to ALL the laws of that country.

Here in the UK an air "rifle" with a folding stock that can be fired single handed, as a pistol, with no shoulder stock is illegal if over 6fpe, because of the pistol bit.

A prime example of the legal requirement is the Hatsan AT-P2, with the stock fitted it could be a "carbine" but because the stock is removable to make it useable in "pistol" format it was limited to 6fpe.
A "rifle" is a shoulder fired weapon.

There is no such thing as a "section 1" air pistol over 6fpe, in the manner of LBP/LBR, if it's over 6fpe & can be shot as a pistol, under UK law it becomes a section 5 prohibited weapon.

Thats why I questioned your previous post which negated all local laws..

Baz

[WILBA]

The airarms TDR stock comes apart easy and as for length I don't think that counts either due to bull pups being incredibly short these days. Not much info on the whole topic tbh, bit of a dark area

Bet my skan r32 is shorter than the AA TDR.