577 Musketoon hankering

[DesG]

I just sold on my lovely little Pedersoli le Page .36 and have a hankering for a Musketoon. I have a 577 musket barrel in one of my cannon and like the size of the hole in the target and I know of one probably available for around a hundred quid.

What is the opinion on here of anyone who has one? Musketoon or full length rifle? Mostly to be shot at 25m so a full length a bit overkill perhaps.

[tacfoley]

I just sold on my lovely little Pedersoli le Page .36 and have a hankering for a Musketoon. I have a 577 musket barrel in one of my cannon and like the size of the hole in the target and I know of one probably available for around a hundred quid.

What is the opinion on here of anyone who has one? Musketoon or full length rifle? Mostly to be shot at 25m so a full length a bit overkill perhaps.

Try and buy a REAL Parker-Hale version - serial numbers anything up to 9000. There are a good few of them around, like mine, serial #1187 [not for sale].

Make sure you have to correct bullet mould - the Lyman deep-cavity version is the way to go. The bore needs measuring so that you can get a fit that is 0.001-0.002 smaller than the muzzle.

The bullet has a deep concavity that maximises the blow-out effect in the chamber where the rifling is intentionally a lot deeper than it is at the muzzle. Later guns, made entirely in Italy by EuroArms, do NOT have this prototypical feature. Guns with serial numbers between 9001 and 14000 have P-H barrels, but little else. Check the stamps for Birmingham Proof House and proof load of 90gr.

The service load is 2.5 drams - 68.5gr of FFg. Lots of them, mine excluded, shoot quite well with loads as low as 45gr. A good stiff lube is needed, too, I make mine from 60/40 beeswax and olive oil.

When you come to replace the nipple - they EAT nipples - make sure to get the copper spacer washer from Peter Dyson - their use makes removing the thing a lot easier. The very first sign of hammer blow-back - STOP right there.

They are great fun, but are nevertheless a very serious piece of military hardware, used mainly by artillery and dragoons as a kind of last-ditch defence. A friend of mine in Maine has taken everything allowable with his Musketoon, but being rather large, he has no real problems shooting a 600gr solid and 100gr loads. He has dropped a 3/4 ton buff in Montana on three occasions, too. Back in the woods, hHis hog shots enter the chestplate, and often come out above the tail. Here in UK, of course, it is not permitted to shoot live game with one, as they 'fail' the muzzle energy test.

Yeah, right.

[enfield2band]

I just sold on my lovely little Pedersoli le Page .36 and have a hankering for a Musketoon. I have a 577 musket barrel in one of my cannon and like the size of the hole in the target and I know of one probably available for around a hundred quid.

What is the opinion on here of anyone who has one? Musketoon or full length rifle? Mostly to be shot at 25m so a full length a bit overkill perhaps.

The musketoon has its quirks. A friend of mine has one and it is all over the place with a deep cavity bullet like the Lee. A bullet from a PH mould with a deep cavity does not make any difference. A cast bullet using a shallow base plug, Lee & PH, brought the shots onto the card at 100 yards but was still erratic. He tried medium powder and it improved the accuracy, but it was not perfect, the groups were still at several inches. He opted for the Pedersoli shallow cavity mould and medium powder and the result was about the same. He's working on it!

Its all good fun though.

[Graybat]

The musketoon has its quirks. A friend of mine has one and it is all over the place with a deep cavity bullet like the Lee. A bullet from a PH mould with a deep cavity does not make any difference. A cast bullet using a shallow base plug, Lee & PH, brought the shots onto the card at 100 yards but was still erratic. He tried medium powder and it improved the accuracy, but it was not perfect, the groups were still at several inches. He opted for the Pedersoli shallow cavity mould and medium powder and the result was about the same. He's working on it!

Its all good fun though.

I really enjoy shooting my PH Musketoon. I use 65 grains Kranks medium powder mainly because this is the load my powder flask dispenses into the plastic test tubes I use. I don’t load direct from the flask as this is no longer allowed. I’ve been very pleased with this load and get very good groups (6 inch) at 50 metres, the range I shoot standing. Intend to have a go at 100 and 200 yards next time I’m at Bisley as I saw a chap shooting his prone at 200 yards and hitting the target. He was also using a 65g load.

I get my heads from Alan Wiffin who casts and sizes them.

[DesG]

Thanks for the replies. The musketoon sounds like fun. I have no idea yet what the bloke at the club is selling, only that it’s a 577 musketoon. Time will tell.

I have two Lyman 575 minie moulds which are identical bar the base plugs. The ogive deep plug seems to work better than the shallow flat base in the original Tower Enfields I was casting for. It will be interesting to see what works in a more modern barrel. I also have a .560 lee ball mold for my smoothbore cannon. The minie make interesting full silhouette holes in that at 25yds.

We have a 100 and 50 m range which is only cleared for 22rf. I am trying to convince the committee that the 577 is only a 22 with a worn bore, but no luck yet.

Now we wait for my 1 4 1 to go through!

[tacfoley]

Thanks for the replies. The musketoon sounds like fun. I have no idea yet what the bloke at the club is selling, only that it’s a 577 musketoon. Time will tell.

I have two Lyman 575 minie moulds which are identical bar the base plugs. The ogive deep plug seems to work better than the shallow flat base in the original Tower Enfields I was casting for. It will be interesting to see what works in a more modern barrel. I also have a .560 lee ball mold for my smoothbore cannon. The minie make interesting full silhouette holes in that at 25yds.

We have a 100 and 50 m range which is only cleared for 22rf. I am trying to convince the committee that the 577 is only a 22 with a worn bore, but no luck yet.

Now we wait for my 1 4 1 to go through!

The 'more modern' barrel you mention, in the Parker-Hale Musketoon, but NOT in the EuroArms productions, is an exact replication of the original Pattern 1861 Musketoon in every respect, having been copied exactly from the sealed pattern version held at that time by the MoD Pattern Room. As, indeed, was every part of every version of the Enfield rifle ever made by Parker-Hale. As I mentioned above, it has the original style progressive rifling that is NOT found on any modern replica made by the Italians.

I was actually present in the Pattern Room in Nottingham [after it had been moved from its original site at RSA Enfield], when they were grudgingly returned by the P-H staff members, and helped the much-missed Herbie Woodend MBE to 'count the bits'.

[DesG]

Well, I've gone for it. Collecting my new baby tomorrow. For Tac the serial number is 1152 which would make it a PH original according to David Minshall I believe.

I'll try it on Friday, unfortunately only at twenty five metres as the people in the housing estate behind our range are forever complaining about the bullet holes.

[Greygoose]

Well, I've gone for it. Collecting my new baby tomorrow. For Tac the serial number is 1152 which would make it a PH original according to David Minshall I believe.

I'll try it on Friday, unfortunately only at twenty five metres as the people in the housing estate behind our range are forever complaining about the bullet holes.

3 ahead of mine off the production line!

[tacfoley]

3 ahead of mine off the production line!

And mine is 1187!!! All good.

I bought mine new in 1974 from Ron May at Cherry Tree Rise - got the receipt somewhere, too. It came with a Sergeant's combination tool and a nifty patch. That latter I still have, but the VERY useful combination tool disappeared a while back, courtesy of a fellow shooter who left with it in his tool box and never came back...

I now have a REAL item from Mr Dyson.

[tacfoley]

Well, I've gone for it. Collecting my new baby tomorrow. For Tac the serial number is 1152 which would make it a PH original according to David Minshall I believe.

I'll try it on Friday, unfortunately only at twenty five metres as the people in the housing estate behind our range are forever complaining about the bullet holes.

First thing to do is to get on to Peter Dyson's website and order a couple of spare nipple washers - made of copper, they act as a spacer to ease the removal of the nipple. A touch of CoppaSlip on the threads is good, as well, seeing as your new rifle has some serious age about it.

[enfield2band]

First thing to do is to get on to Peter Dyson's website and order a couple of spare nipple washers - made of copper, they act as a spacer to ease the removal of the nipple. A touch of CoppaSlip on the threads is good, as well, seeing as your new rifle has some serious age about it.

At £1 each I would look at fleabay. I have just had a quick look and you can get 20 for less than £2.

Dyson lists his at 8.5mm x 1mm. If you get the nearest it would not take much to file the hole out by 1/2mm, approx .020".

[DesG]

At £1 each I would look at fleabay. I have just had a quick look and you can get 20 for less than £2.

Dyson lists his at 8.5mm x 1mm. If you get the nearest it would not take much to file the hole out by 1/2mm, approx .020".

Yes, I thought the same but I already have boxes and boxes of various washers in my workshop. I have ordered a couple of spare nipples though.

[tacfoley]

The washer needs to be copper - NOT any kind of ferrous material.

[enfield2band]

The washer needs to be copper - NOT any kind of ferrous material.

Hi tac, the ones I looked at were copper.

[loiner1965]

At £1 each I would look at fleabay. I have just had a quick look and you can get 20 for less than £2.

Dyson lists his at 8.5mm x 1mm. If you get the nearest it would not take much to file the hole out by 1/2mm, approx .020".

did this myself