A solution for which there is no problem whatsoever.....

[loiner1965]

the old french 1873 mas 11mm revolver of the " mummy fame " broke its top strap when folk use to ream its cylinders to accept .45 acp cartriges

[Abasmajor]

I have been shooting conventional Muzzle Loading Revolvers since I lost my breech loading revolvers in 1997. Unfortunately, we lost access to our outdoor range a year or so ago resulting in the adaption of our indoor range to accommodate pistol calibre rifles and nitro conversion revolvers. Of the two conversions available from new, one was based on a modern D/A revolver design using .38 wadcutter bullets loaded off gun using a small press. The other was the Anvil conversion to the Uberti Remington 1858 NMA which used soft lead ball loaded in exactly the same manner as my conventional Uberti revolver. I have now been able to join another local club with an outdoor range, but will continue to shoot my Anvil conversion for the many advantages it provides over the traditional revolvers. A lot of thought has gone into the conversion with cylinder having been completely replaced with a rebated version which has been machined to ensure the lower portion holds just the recommended charge of smokeless powder which is clearly visible during the loading process. Initially, I wanted an S/A revolver similar in handling to my conventional model, but which was suitable for use at a certified indoor range. The Anvil met my needs perfectly, being exactly the same make and model as my existing revolver, but capable of being used indoors.

Although I clean my revolvers after every trip to the range, the use of smokeless powder removes the necessity to do so immediately. In addition to this, the 209 shotgun primers are cheaper than the No 11 caps, more reliable and easier to fit during cold weather. No grease or fillers are needed at the range with the balls having previously been coated with Allox lubricant before being returned to their box.

Using the recommended smokeless powder load, I have found that the nitro conversion revolver shoots just as accurately as my conventional revolver and coincidentally almost to exactly the same point of aim as when using 777 powder outdoors. Since owning the gun, I have not experienced any primer failures or cylinder binding issues during the expenditure of many rounds without having to periodically remove the cylinder during the session.

It's worth noting that Nitro Conversion revolvers are also eligible for use at the "Repeating Pistol Meetings" organised by the Surrey Branch of the MLAGB in conjunction with The South London Rifle Club at Bisley.

Maybe not for the purist, but perfect for those who don’t have access to an outdoor range and want to continue with the sport they love.

Brian

[tacfoley]

I have been shooting conventional Muzzle Loading Revolvers since I lost my breech loading revolvers in 1997. Unfortunately, we lost access to our outdoor range a year or so ago resulting in the adaption of our indoor range to accommodate pistol calibre rifles and nitro conversion revolvers. Of the two conversions available from new, one was based on a modern D/A revolver design using .38 wadcutter bullets loaded off gun using a small press. The other was the Anvil conversion to the Uberti Remington 1858 NMA which used soft lead ball loaded in exactly the same manner as my conventional Uberti revolver. I have now been able to join another local club with an outdoor range, but will continue to shoot my Anvil conversion for the many advantages it provides over the traditional revolvers. A lot of thought has gone into the conversion with cylinder having been completely replaced with a rebated version which has been machined to ensure the lower portion holds just the recommended charge of smokeless powder which is clearly visible during the loading process. Initially, I wanted an S/A revolver similar in handling to my conventional model, but which was suitable for use at a certified indoor range. The Anvil met my needs perfectly, being exactly the same make and model as my existing revolver, but capable of being used indoors.

Although I clean my revolvers after every trip to the range, the use of smokeless powder removes the necessity to do so immediately. In addition to this, the 209 shotgun primers are cheaper than the No 11 caps, more reliable and easier to fit during cold weather. No grease or fillers are needed at the range with the balls having previously been coated with Allox lubricant before being returned to their box.

Using the recommended smokeless powder load, I have found that the nitro conversion revolver shoots just as accurately as my conventional revolver and coincidentally almost to exactly the same point of aim as when using 777 powder outdoors. Since owning the gun, I have not experienced any primer failures or cylinder binding issues during the expenditure of many rounds without having to periodically remove the cylinder during the session.

Maybe not for the purist, but perfect for those who don’t have access to an outdoor range and want to continue with the sport they love.

Brian

Good post, and I see and respect your POV.

[tacfoley]

the old french 1873 mas 11mm revolver of the " mummy fame " broke its top strap when folk use to ream its cylinders to accept .45 acp cartriges

The 11mm French Ordance revolver cartridge, after revision, fired a 160gr soft lead bullet at 620fps.

The .45ACP cartridge in service form shot a 230gr FMJ at 835 fps.

There are loons everywhere, including law-breakers who take their lives in their hands in the backyard workshops.

By comparison. not only is the Ruger Old Army made of high quality investment cast stainless steel, but the top strap is almost twice as thick as that of the 19th C French revolver.

[loiner1965]

The 11mm French Ordance revolver cartridge, after revision, fired a 160gr soft lead bullet at 620fps.

The .45ACP cartridge in service form shot a 230gr FMJ at 835 fps.

There are loons everywhere, including law-breakers who take their lives in their hands in the backyard workshops.

By comparison. not only is the Ruger Old Army made of high quality investment cast stainless steel, but the top strap is almost twice as thick as that of the 19th C French revolver.

just had a reread from another forum about the 11mm french revolver, it says the cylinder was very strong but the weakest part was the top strap which could take mild .45acp loads of around 800 bar.
like everything else you will get numpties using excessive smokeless powder in these old bp revolvers which they do in the usa now.
i was interested in the strength of the modern made uberti 1858.....i know the uberti says bp only for safety and to stop people using smokeless in them etc bu anyone know how strong they are ?

[tacfoley]

just had a reread from another forum about the 11mm french revolver, it says the cylinder was very strong but the weakest part was the top strap which could take mild .45acp loads of around 800 bar.
like everything else you will get numpties using excessive smokeless powder in these old bp revolvers which they do in the usa now.
i was interested in the strength of the modern made uberti 1858.....i know the uberti says bp only for safety and to stop people using smokeless in them etc bu anyone know how strong they are ?

There is a world of difference between the stresses undergone by the pressure-bearing parts of a revolver shooting a late 19th century Black Powder cartridge like the 11 French Ordnance round, and even the basic NITRO loaded .45ACP.

[Abasmajor]

just had a reread from another forum about the 11mm french revolver, it says the cylinder was very strong but the weakest part was the top strap which could take mild .45acp loads of around 800 bar.
like everything else you will get numpties using excessive smokeless powder in these old bp revolvers which they do in the usa now.
i was interested in the strength of the modern made uberti 1858.....i know the uberti says bp only for safety and to stop people using smokeless in them etc bu anyone know how strong they are ?

Hi,

The Anvil conversion uses a standard Uberti Remington 1858 NMA frame, but the cylinder assembly is replaced with a completely new one having a fixed rear plate holding the firing pin and a revolving forward portion with the chambers rebated at the back thus lending greater strength to this part of the cylinder. The rebated portion of the chambers have been machined to dimensions that also provide visual confirmation that when full the recommended powder charge has not been exceeded. The complete gun is obviously subject to nitro proofing ensuring its safety when used with the recommended maximum load. The maximum recommended smokeless charge is very small and I would liken the felt recoil and report as being similar to that from a .38psl revolver with a target load.

Provided the maximum load of smokeless powder is not exceeded and soft lead balls are used rather that conical bullets the gun can be considered as safe for continual use without concern. I'm sure we are all fully aware that even small increases in these light smokeless charges can result in dangerous pressures, so extra care is needed when dispensing nitro powder.

Some research by the maker suggests that with these light loads using soft lead balls is preferable in terms of accuracy compared with the use of conical bullets.

Any attempt to use smokeless powder in a standard black powder revolver or exceeding the recommended loads in a nitro conversion would not only be extremely dangerous, but also subject to the law of diminishing returns making the whole thing utterly pointless

Brian

[series2a]

After seeing a guy at the club loading his Nitro conversion the faff involved is not worth it.
If you think cleaning your Revolver is dirty messy then I would suggest a co2 Revolver is for you.
Your totally right Tac.

[tacfoley]

Yup, to me, and I know it's going to p*ss some people off, having to put up with all this mess without the fun that comes from shooting HTG black powder is yet another reminder that as far as the UK government is concerned, the metallic cartridge never happened.

The rest of the world looks on in bafflement while we gently slide into shooting oblivion, without the excuse that the gunsmoke got into our eyes and blinded our way.

We can't even use the modern conversions in any kind of competition outside the UK - there are NONE for a nitro-propelled muzzle loader, since they only exist here on mainland UK.

[loiner1965]

cleaning my stainless steel 1858 is a doddle and to me is part of shooting it.
At my club they had complaints of the smell and smoke of bp guns which is a minority to be fair and we had to use 777 or pyrodex.
Now we can use bp again as long as its quiet but i was the newbies that was complaining, after all it is a gun club so you have to expect the noise and smoke.....we have new upgraded fans too

[Abasmajor]

After seeing a guy at the club loading his Nitro conversion the faff involved is not worth it.
If you think cleaning your Revolver is dirty messy then I would suggest a co2 Revolver is for you.
Your totally right Tac.

I acquired an Anvil nitro conversion revolver which is based on the same Uberti Remington 1858 revolver I currently still own and shoot due to the loss of our outdoor range and the subsequent restrictions placed on the use of muzzle loading revolvers on our now fullbore adapted indoor range.

Although I have now found another club locally with a suitable outdoor range I continue to shoot the nitro conversion as it actually involves less faff that the BP version. The nitro revolver can be loaded on-gun in just the same way as the standard Remington BP revolver without the need for fillers or grease and with the added advantage that the 209 shotgun primers used are both cheaper and easier to fit than the No11 caps used on the standard revolver. It's also quite nice on some of those cold, damp winter days not having to wait 10 minutes or so between shots while the smoke clears.

I still enjoy the full BP experience with its associated noise, smell and sometimes unreliable ignition etc, but I feel there is certainly a place for these nitro conversions especially when the alternative might be to give up shooting large pistol calibre pistols altogether.

As said in an earlier post, I have no issues with cleaning my revolvers after use and spend as much time cleaning the nitro conversion as the BP revolver,but its sometimes nice no to be faced with the immediacy required with traditional BP revolvers.

It's also worth noting that Nitro Conversion revolvers are eligible for use at the "Repeating Pistol Meetings" organised by the Surrey Branch of the MLAGB in conjunction with The South London Rifle Club at Bisley.

Brian

[tacfoley]

It's also worth noting that Nitro Conversion revolvers are also eligible for use at the "Repeating Pistol Meetings" organised by the Surrey Branch of the MLAGB in conjunction with The South London Rifle Club at Bisley. Brian

I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarificatementation. Still only UK, though...