No.2 (5.6mm) pellets

[look no hands]

Defiant Vintage in 5.6mm have ceased production. The machinery was bought by H&N but I have been struggling to find out when they intend to commence production. Personally, I have found the old Defiant pellet not quite up to the standard of a number of 5.5mm pellets, so far as accuracy is concerned (but have a slight edge in terms of power), and I have found that Superdomes have the edge in many old .22 calibre rifles (5.6mm) and are also pretty good from a power perspective too.

A

I bought a few boxes of Defiant Vintage but they don't seem to go through any of my BSA's very well.

Pete

[andrewM]

I bought a few boxes of Defiant Vintage but they don't seem to go through any of my BSA's very well.

Pete

Certainly, there is room for improvement by H&N; perhaps they can tweak the pellets to match their Sniper Light, which I have found to be highly accurate. However, they appear no further forward with production. This is unfortunate when one considers that there must be hundreds of thousands of air rifles and air pistols in the UK that were manufactured to the old .22 (5.6mm) size. Not least, there is no significant competition.

[Geezer]

Certainly, there is room for improvement by H&N; perhaps they can tweak the pellets to match their Sniper Light, which I have found to be highly accurate. However, they appear no further forward with production. This is unfortunate when one considers that there must be hundreds of thousands of air rifles and air pistols in the UK that were manufactured to the old .22 (5.6mm) size. Not least, there is no significant competition.

My understanding is that H&N have no intention of reintroducing the Vintage.

[WILBA]

At the prices the proper eley wasps fetch on evil bay i might take a punt and put mine on there. Some have gone for £45 plus postage

[andrewM]

My understanding is that H&N have no intention of reintroducing the Vintage.

I held extensive correspondence with them in 2019. They bought the Defiant moulds and machinery, which they must have done with a view to production. However, they needed to adjust it/upgrade/repair it and needed an expert from the UK to do this. The correspondence then became bogged down in the translation and I have not revisited it, which I must do at some stage.

I explained to them that with the demise of Eley Wasp and the absence of any competition, they could mop up here quite simply. It sounds like a no-brainer to me. It merely needs the go ahead.

[Lakey]

I held extensive correspondence with them in 2019. They bought the Defiant moulds and machinery, which they must have done with a view to production. However, they needed to adjust it/upgrade/repair it and needed an expert from the UK to do this. The correspondence then became bogged down in the translation and I have not revisited it, which I must do at some stage.

I explained to them that with the demise of Eley Wasp and the absence of any competition, they could mop up here quite simply. It sounds like a no-brainer to me. It merely needs the go ahead.

Hi Andrew,

What I dont understand is why any prospective manufacturer doesn't get hold some original 5.56mm ELEY Wasp pellets, and just replicate them specifically for the No.2 bore English vintage market.

This would involve analysis of the original lead alloy used, and re-manufacture of replica moulds. ELEY wasps were a short pellet in length, and had thicker than average skirt thickness. Also it is my understanding that the lead alloy had higher that average amounts of antimony, which made it harder.

Most vintage shooters regard 5.56mm Eley Wasps, as close to the ideal pellet for older english barrels, so surely, there is your template ???

Lakey

[andrewM]

Hi Andrew,

What I dont understand is why any prospective manufacturer doesn't get hold some original 5.56mm ELEY Wasp pellets, and just replicate them specifically for the No.2 bore English vintage market.

This would involve analysis of the original lead alloy used, and re-manufacture of replica moulds. ELEY wasps were a short pellet in length, and had thicker than average skirt thickness. Also it is my understanding that the lead alloy had higher that average amounts of antimony, which made it harder.

Most vintage shooters regard 5.56mm Eley Wasps, as close to the ideal pellet for older english barrels, so surely, there is your template ???

Lakey

I wholly agree with you; it is a mystery to me too.

In addition, Webley and BSA (amongst others) were still producing .22 (5.6mm) barrels well into the 80s and beyond.

On another matter, I wonder why the Germans produce pellets with a longer skirt. Perhaps tests have demonstrated greater accuracy for a longer pellet.

[hwtyger]

My 5.56 Tempest loves 5.53 FTT. Its less accurate with 5.55 FTT
The .22 MK3 was best pellet FTT but after overhaul/tune changed to JSB Exact 5.51 (or vv).
Good tip, Superdomes. Will keep in mind.

[TonyL]

A little casual testing with the Mercury S yesterday at about nine yards:-

Superdomes okay-ish. A few flyers, though. But the gun hasn't been used for years and maybe the barrel was in need of cleaning / conditioning? May try again.

Marksman were noticeably worse.

Then I tried some proper early Wasps. "These should be awesome," I thought. Absolutely hopeless!

RWS Hobby - Wow! Tiny little clusters of five shots, barely larger than a single pellet hole. I didn't measure, but in the region of 1.0 to 1.5mm centre to centre.

Will try some FTT and AAF through it next.

Hope this is of interest and use to anyone looking in.

[harvey_s]

Today I took the Tracker with me to the range and with me I took a tin of Wasp 5.6 pellets that I found in the garage.
These are the non-Eley ones and were part of a job lot of older pellets I got given ages ago and I'd forgotten about under the impression they must be crap given all the bad reviews they get given.
Many shots later - I can only speak as I find...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvey...eposted-public
https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvey...eposted-public
Two representative samples of 5 shot groups produced at 25 yds...
The pellets were tight in the tap and needed seating with a biro - but I'm pretty impressed actually.
It just goes to show that there is no substitute for first hand testing and sometimes questioning popular wisdom for yourself.

[look no hands]

Today I took the Tracker with me to the range and with me I took a tin of Wasp 5.6 pellets that I found in the garage.
These are the non-Eley ones and were part of a job lot of older pellets I got given ages ago and I'd forgotten about under the impression they must be crap given all the bad reviews they get given.
Many shots later - I can only speak as I find...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvey...eposted-public
https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvey...eposted-public
Two representative samples of 5 shot groups produced at 25 yds...
The pellets were tight in the tap and needed seating with a biro - but I'm pretty impressed actually.
It just goes to show that there is no substitute for first hand testing and sometimes questioning popular wisdom for yourself.

Blimey they are tight, I take it you've tried other pellets in it, but that's not bad grouping with a .22 tap loader.

Pete

[look no hands]

I held extensive correspondence with them in 2019. They bought the Defiant moulds and machinery, which they must have done with a view to production. However, they needed to adjust it/upgrade/repair it and needed an expert from the UK to do this. The correspondence then became bogged down in the translation and I have not revisited it, which I must do at some stage.

I explained to them that with the demise of Eley Wasp and the absence of any competition, they could mop up here quite simply. It sounds like a no-brainer to me. It merely needs the go ahead.

Why would they need to buy the moulds in the first place, surely a pellet company like H&N or even JSB can design a mould pretty easily for a 5.6, considering JSB already offer 3 different head sizes in 5.5, if a small company like Pax can get them made then surely one of the big companies that are making gazillions of pellets everyday can do it easily.

Pete

[Brickhill]

The best pellet for my Mercury S is the 5.6mm Eley wasp. Next best Superdomes. I have tried a lot of 5.5mm .22 and the Merc doesn't like them generally.
The Eley wasp 5.6mm seem to be made of quite hard lead/antimony. They certainly don't look anything special but the Merc loves 'em.
I go through the tin and dispose of any damaged pellets of which there are usually quite a few and this helps with consistent accuracy.

[andrewM]

The best pellet for my Mercury S is the 5.6mm Eley wasp. Next best Superdomes. I have tried a lot of 5.5mm .22 and the Merc doesn't like them generally.
The Eley wasp 5.6mm seem to be made of quite hard lead/antimony. They certainly don't look anything special but the Merc loves 'em.
I go through the tin and dispose of any damaged pellets of which there are usually quite a few and this helps with consistent accuracy.

I wonder whether you mean the new Wasps, which are in a similar tin but have omitted the name 'Eley'. The Eley company sold the Wasp brand to the Chinese some 15-20 years ago (and, I gather, the machinery - which appears to have been jettisoned). The old Eley Wasps never had any damaged pellets unlike the newer version, which is packed with duds. It is now very difficult to obtain the old Eley Wasps. I have two or three tins of them, which I keep purely for reference purposes, as a benchmark by which to compare other pellets in terms of power and groupings. There are a few other members, here, who do likewise.

As Pete says, I don't know why a large pellet manufacturer does not produce to 5.6mm. There must be a big gap in the market and this was the point I made to H&N (hoping to persuade them to produce to 5.6mm), only to discover that they had bought the Defiant 5.6mm and have done nothing with it.

By the way, that is an attractive looking Mercury. What is its approx. year of production and what sort of power and accuracy do you get from it?