Chainfire Black Powder

[Mac42]

Many years ago when shooting BP and now starting again I can't remember what i used. Done a bit of research and find that a good mix is Beeswax, Lard and a drop of Olive oil. What do others use nowadays? I am also using semolina as a filler. All comments and suggestions appreciated.

[DedIdick]

My understanding is that Chain-fires are caused primarily by loose fitting caps and are initiated from the nipple side, not the loading end; If you shave off a ring of lead when seating your balls, there's no issue. Use whatever you feel comfortable with.

[Turnup]

I have tried all sorts in my revolvers and there seems to be little difference. I am currently using E45 cream as this seems to make clean up easier and I think I get less bore fouling.

[Mac42]

I have tried all sorts in my revolvers and there seems to be little difference. I am currently using E45 cream as this seems to make clean up easier and I think I get less bore fouling.

What a brilliant idea. As an Eczema sufferer got loads of E45 so can treat my eczema at the same time as shooting my BP revolver. Maybe a little weak in hot weather.

[tacfoley]

I'm going along with the man from Inverness. I've been shooting BP revolvers since the late 60's, and find it odd to say the least that I've not only never had a chainfire, but I've never seen one, either. I've also been present in places where fifty or more revolver shooters were letting loose at any one time - not once, but many times, and never seen one taking place, or even hearing of one.

Ever watch any of the MLAIC competitions? Or Wedgnock? how many chainfires there?

Zero.

Close-fitting caps on good quality nipples seem to help in NOT having them, and I've never understood how a flame can get past a ball that has taken some effort to ram into a chamber that is too small for it, without shaving off that little lead ring.

Those occasions that one reads about have all the support for it happening right there - worn-out nipples and loose-fitting caps and the flame that can and does, go around corners wherever it can do so, and vwala!, a chainfire.

[Daryll]

This is reassuring....

As someone who is planning on getting my first front-stuffer in the next few weeks, (probably one of the Italian versions of the New Model Army), during my research chainfires have been mentioned enough times to cause a little concern..

But it sounds like a similar "my mate knows a guy who saw someone have one" scenario where they actually are very rare...

[Mac42]

I'm going along with the man from Inverness. I've been shooting BP revolvers since the late 60's, and find it odd to say the least that I've not only never had a chainfire, but I've never seen one, either. I've also been present in places where fifty or more revolver shooters were letting loose at any one time - not once, but many times, and never seen one taking place, or even hearing of one.

Ever watch any of the MLAIC competitions? Or Wedgnock? how many chainfires there?

Zero.

Close-fitting caps on good quality nipples seem to help in NOT having them, and I've never understood how a flame can get past a ball that has taken some effort to ram into a chamber that is too small for it, without shaving off that little lead ring.

Those occasions that one reads about have all the support for it happening right there - worn-out nipples and loose-fitting caps and the flame that can and does, go around corners wherever it can do so, and vwala!, a chainfire.

Yes, I have watched MLAGB pistol competitions at Wedgnock and they all cover their balls with Greece. Why is that, I do know that only philes of BP can be used and Powder flasks are banned.

[Mac42]

My understanding is that Chain-fires are caused primarily by loose fitting caps and are initiated from the nipple side, not the loading end; If you shave off a ring of lead when seating your balls, there's no issue. Use whatever you feel comfortable with.

Never been able to understand the reaon for greece over the balls as you have blackpowder filler and then ball with lead trim when fitted where is the chain fire.

[tacfoley]

Never been able to understand the reaon for greece over the balls as you have blackpowder filler and then ball with lead trim when fitted where is the chain fire.

Mac, you are answering you own question. A lot of folks think that by putting a dob on NON-PETROLEUM-based grease over the end of the loaded chamber that it will keep the powder fouling soft and make it easier to clean up afterwards. I've watched the grease get blown every which way on the first shot - that is, the grease on each side of the fired chamber, and wondered who benefited from that?

Each to his/her own - E45 is as good as anything, mainly because being an emulsion, it just washes away afterwards on cleanup, taking the crud with it.

Mostly.

Phials are used in international competition because the risk of blowing up half a pound of BP in the loading flask from a remaining spark...it HAS happened in the US, and it CAN be fatal to the shooter. The very least will be a serious injury to the hand holding the flask.

I'll try and find one blowing up....

[Daryll]

I've watched shooters at the club smear all types of grease over the front of the chamber, but from various sources I've read that this shouldn't be needed.

Powder, a lubed wad, then tight fitting balls and caps should be all thats needed... but as I mentioned, thats from research on t'internet, I've never yet loaded a BP pistol myself, so willing to learn...

[DesG]

I have to agree with tac. After fifty odd years of bp shooting I have never seen or heard of a chain fire except on you(make it up)tube.

[Mac42]

Mac, you are answering you own question. A lot of folks think that by putting a dob on NON-PETROLEUM-based grease over the end of the loaded chamber that it will keep the powder fouling soft and make it easier to clean up afterwards. I've watched the grease get blown every which way on the first shot - that is, the grease on each side of the fired chamber, and wondered who benefited from that?

Each to his/her own - E45 is as good as anything, mainly because being an emulsion, it just washes away afterwards on cleanup, taking the crud with it.

Mostly.

Phials are used in international competition because the risk of blowing up half a pound of BP in the loading flask from a remaining spark...it HAS happened in the US, and it CAN be fatal to the shooter. The very least will be a serious injury to the hand holding the flask.

I'll try and find one blowing up....

You always find one like me who asks the simple questions. Here we go.
18 g black powder. Instead of filler use a wad. What size wad should be used and should it be lubed.

[tacfoley]

You KNOW what I think about using .36cal loads in a .44cal revolver designed to take around 35gr, but it's up to you. Some folks make grease cookies - VERY messy. especially in summer when they tend to melt. Others spend their hard-earned money buying pre-lubed wads called Ox-yoke 'Wonderwads' - they cost a fortune and don't seem to do anything that I can detect. If you are getting the feeling that I tend not to go with this stuff, but simply follow Sam colt's advice on loading [he makes no mention of using any kind of wad, or grease] you'd be right.

However, numerous other folk here have their opinion, and experiences. See what THEY think.

Wad-cutters can be bought, and so can thick felt to use them on - look for stuff at least an 1/8" thick - 0.0125". If you must grease them, then just soak them in a pan of melted lard, fish 'em out, and let them cool down and keep in an airtight container.

[Turnup]

Yes, I have watched MLAGB pistol competitions at Wedgnock and they all cover their balls with Greece. Why is that, I do know that only philes of BP can be used and Powder flasks are banned.

MLAIC rules stipulate that lube must be used over the ball in revolvers and they give the reason as for the avoidance of chain fires, but this is not scientifically based.

I am aware that there is some controversy over the cause of chain fires but I have witnessed one here in the UK. Chap next to me at the range had three chambers discharge at once. He was using Pyrodex with a filler but no lube or wad. There were no injuries and no apparent damage to the gun, in fact I noticed nothing unusual at the time except that he was holding his hand against his body and hopping up and down a bit. The cause was not clear but he started using lube and has not had any further chain fires. Of course this proves nothing so the matter remains open.

I personally favour lube for another reason - every bullet has some form of lubrication so why would a ball not need it?

On phials:

The Chairman of my ML club lost the top joint of his index finger to a priming flask explosion during an international matchlock competition (IIRC in Germany). The observer (each shooter had an observer standing behind) reported that an ember from an adjacent shooter was seen to float down into the pan just as he was priming it. The top joint was never found nor was most of his priming flask seen again. He is now called Stumpy. He still shoots very well but has had to learn a different trigger technique. He has drilled largish holes in all of his flasks and plugged them with corks. This will significantly reduce the explosion should it happen again but it was an outside chance in the first place.

[enfield2band]

I have seen a chain fire. I was standing next to a shooter when it happened. He fired the first shot and flame flashed around the back of the cylinder along the nipples and all six shots fired off one after the other. He held the gun at arms length until all the shots had discharged. Amazingly the gun did not burst but because the lead balls had forced themselves past part of the frame it bent the centre pin and the revolver frame.

I should have dived for cover but was so intrigued by this I stood there and watched it.

I have never used grease on my revolver. When you fire the first shot the grease is blown out of each chamber on either side of the chamber that has been fired by the gases escaping from the gap between the cylinder and the barrel.

If you feel safer using grease then it does no harm.