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Thread: Nitro in a BP revolver.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Not my gun and like you I want nothing to do with the whole idea - trying to keep my friend in one piece.

    That is no answer to the question "What makes it illegal to submit a BP proofed gun for nitro proofing" You have asserted that to do so is illegal and when asked for support you in effect have simply repeated "It is against the law (CIP and Proof Acts). There is no such provision in either of them. Neither is there any particular law against owning or shooting a gun which is not proofed, or is out of proof or in loading it with more than the proofed load. The law prohibits only the sale of such an item.
    Sir, since you clearly know far more about the Firearms and Proof Acts in this county than I do, particularly with regard to requesting that a gun made explicitly for BP propellant be retested to see if it will withstand the rigours of shooting a nitro load, I hand the thread over to you.

    As noted above, Mr Westlake's cylinder are made to shoot nitro loads, as, indeed, are the cylinders used to convert the ROA to shooting nitro cartridge loads. AFAIK, and I'm sure that you can correct me here, of all the countries on the planet where BP firearms are legal, only 3/4 of the UK has this ridiculous loose-nitro muzzle-loading revolver requirement.

  2. #17
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    [QUOTE=springfieldm6;7845586 I’d also question how your friend has managed to get authorisation to use the revolver on his own land - vermin control?![/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by sclg View Post
    That's a very good point. I can't see the police ever giving authorisation for a BP pistol other than for 'target shooting' which means an 'authorised range' condition would apply. i.e. a range with a formal risk assessment and full insurance cover.

    This has little to do with my post but trust me on this - in respect of firearms law it's all legit (never quite understand why folk instantly jump to other conclusions). He has an appropriate range on his own land. He has vermin control on his own land. He has Humane Dispatch with no limitations on location. I will not go into further detail as this might identify him but there are good reasons for this endeavour.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    You can take it to the bank that NEITHER UK Proof House would proof-test-fire a BP handgun for ANY nitro load. Apart from the fact that it would be illegal, that is.

    A firearm made for a nitro load is deemed fit for use with BP - indeed, many replicas of rifles can shoot both types of cartridge safely - Trapdoor Springfields [with lead only], Sharps, Smith, Rolling blocks, High Walls et al, ALL with lead projectiles, but not the other way around.
    Why would it be illegal for the proof house to carry out what is effectively a pressure test on a BP firearm with nitro, when the reason for its existence is to pressure test firearms to ensure that they are safe??
    Before submitting it to a proof charge the firearms are inspected to indicate as to whether they are safe to test and can be rejected at that point.
    Rather than individuals submitting firearms for proof or reproof it is normally done by a maker of smith who has already carried out any work required prior to submission.

    This is the link to Birmingham, Linky

  4. #19
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    I always assumed that it would be the complete firearm that is proof tested. So, if a BP pistol is converted to nitro is only the cylinder tested? Doesn't this mean that the only part of the firearm that is nitro capable is the cylinder? Or is that the only part that needs to be.

  5. #20
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    I had a nitro converted revolver years ago when they first began to emerge. First point, as with your friend, I chrono’d mine and was also surprised at the very low velocity. It was a .36 cal and with ball gave an average of 565fps! That’s a ME of just over 50ft/lbs! But, I lived with it as the ES was very, very low and this consistency equates to very nice groups at 25yds!

    Secondly, the proof marks were displayed on the barrel, frame and cylinder and on the barrel was etched something like; (3.0gns Herco. #209) with a proof mark after it. That was the load and primer it had been proofed for.

  6. #21
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    As most of you guys know, there are several companies in the US that manufacture nitro conversions for most BP revolvers. The frame and barrel of a BP revolver will apparently take the extra stresses of nitro but the cylinder will not which is why these conversions are basically a stronger cylinder and separate back plate which holds the shotgun primers. If you look at the cylinder walls on say a 44 BP revolver and compare to a 44 nitro revolver cylinder you will see the BP cylinder walls at the front are thinner. Edited in: Just to clarify, the back plate I referred to above DOES NOT take shotgun primers, they have five or six firing pins depending on which model of conversion you go for. These conversions I'm talking about allow the use of metallic cartridges. Sorry if I caused a bit of confusion there, I think the lockdown is getting to me...
    Last edited by vbull; 21-04-2020 at 09:04 AM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    As most of you guys know, there are several companies in the US that manufacture nitro conversions for most BP revolvers. The frame and barrel of a BP revolver will apparently take the extra pressures but the cylinder will not which is why these conversions are basically a stronger cylinder and separate back plate which holds the shotgun primers. If you look at the cylinder walls on say a 44 BP revolver and compare to a 44 nitro revolver cylinder you will see the BP cylinder walls at the front are thinner.
    love to have one on my 1858 but sadly we cannot even though brownells uk do sell them i believe

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    love to have one on my 1858 but sadly we cannot even though brownells uk do sell them i believe
    Section 5 over here unfortunately..
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    love to have one on my 1858 but sadly we cannot even though brownells uk do sell them i believe
    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    Section 5 over here unfortunately..
    Are you sure? What about Westlake and Anvil conversions?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrysmith View Post
    Are you sure? What about Westlake and Anvil conversions?
    they are still muzzle loaders where as the bp conversion is actual cf brass cases in cylinde
    edit....
    westlake are still loaded from the front into the cylinder and i believe use shotgun primers to ignite which are still percussion.
    the bp conversion cylinder is strengthened and as a separate piece at the rear where they are 6 individual firing pins which are activated by the original percussion hammer
    Last edited by loiner1965; 20-04-2020 at 06:17 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrysmith View Post
    Are you sure? What about Westlake and Anvil conversions?
    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    they are still muzzle loaders where as the bp conversion is actual cf brass cases in cylinder
    Ah ok. When the 209 shotgun primers were mentioned it confused me as this is what the aforementioned conversions use.

    Ps You could have your 1858 converted to nitro

  12. #27
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    My mistake, as already mentioned, the back plate part of the conversions I referred to has firing pins and does not take shotgun primers. Sorry for causing confusion there, don’t know why I said that. I have edited my post above to avoid any more confusion...
    Last edited by vbull; 21-04-2020 at 09:06 AM.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

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