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Thread: Webley thoughts

  1. #1
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    Webley thoughts

    I like Webley air pistols, the older ones like the Mk1, the Senior & the Premier, even the Junior. They all have an appeal. I also like the LP53 which I can shoot tighter groups with than either of the Webleys. Why can't I shoot a group equal to the LP53 with a Webley at the same range. I guess it's because the Walther is a target pistol; it has a good trigger, a long sight radius, clear sights etc so it's not really fair to cpmare the two. They were not designed to meet the same objectives.
    But......is there anything that could be done to squeeze a bit more accuracy out of a Webley? I wonder?
    I have a Premier with a fairly good trigger, it's not brilliant but it breaks consistently, & hasn't really any noticeable creep. So if I was to make any alterations to this pistol I don't think the trigger would be top of the list. The sights on the Webley are useable but a wider front sight blade would be a step in the right direction especially if it was in combination with a nice rear sight, one with a thicker blade than the Premier to enable it to be relieved to reduce flaring & improve the sight picture. The sight base couldnt be increased without increasing the overall length of the pistol. I don't really want to do that, but it could be done....I suppose an extendable sight could be fitted concealed in a rib, a bit like the one on some models of S&W 41. Then there is the barrel joint. The pivot on this one is pretty good & I guess it's braced when the barrel is locked down at the rear but could it move under recoil? Maybe. The gap between the end of the cylinder & the sides of the pivot lug could be shimmed, that might help consistent location from shot to shot. The rear of the barrel is a very loose fit in the cut out that receives it. There is quite a bit of space either side & that seems undesirable. The underside of the barrel could be set to rest on a neoprene button, with the idea that it pushes the barrel upwards when locked down by the stirrup catch. Additionally if I found a steel stirrup catch to modify, it could have a radius machined to the underside to match the radius of the barrel. This might give a positive & consistent lock up which theoretically might help things a bit.

    This is more thoughts in progress rather than work in progress but has anyone "accurised" a Webley? If so was it worth it & what mod do you think was the most beneficial?

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    I honestly don’t see the point, and I like Webleys. They are what they are.

    They can be quite accurate, but things like the Walther LP53 or even the Diana LP5 will shoot smaller groups.

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    They can be very accurate. Ive shot 1cm edge-edge with them at about 5meters. (tempest)
    BUT they are VERY hold sensitive. So they require the correct hold. Otherwise, they wont group.
    Weak points are: possible play on the barrel in locked position. Cán be solved by washers.
    Triggers can be tuned. Grip can be improved with wooden target grip.
    But it has never, nor ever will be, a target pistol like the LP53.
    So you shouldnt compare them. They cant be compared.
    You cán get decent resulta with the Webley pistols. Ive shot 47 ex 50 with them, bút you need practice. LOTS.
    You can just change between pistols as the recoil of the Webley is the other way around vs the LP53,
    ATB,
    yana

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    You could always try to obtain a Cardew modified Barrel to lengthen the sight base on a Senior but they are few and far between. I've seen plenty of pictures but only handled one once and never fired it. As already said, they are very hold sensitive. Target grips, Perseverance and practice can improve things.

    many years ago, I put about a 10" rifled barrel on a Junior (Quite an easy job compared to the other models) for a friend. don't know where it is now but it's accuracy surprised us, it was really pretty good.

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    I suppose this was started by just wondering what sort of accuracy could be squeezed out of the original design. Taking up tolerances, trying to ensure the barrel went back to the same position for each shot etc. I think Webley reckoned a Premier could group in an inch at 30ft. I can get within that with my LP53 & I wondered what factors prevent me doing that with the Premier. I realise the Webley design was never meant to be a 10m paper puncher but despite all its positives I wondered if I could shoot tighter groups with it. I like its compactness & wouldnt really want to increase its length. I had wondered about making a barrel shroud to mount both sights on as one possibility of a mod that might have a benefit. I dont want to try & convert a Premier into a match pistol ( not a practical idea) but just wondering if there are any mods that can be done to make a Webley shoot as accurately as possible. Trigger sems ok, but sights & barrel placement seem possible areas to look at.......quite like the grip angle but have added a big lump of lead into the lower frame section to change weight distribution.I think it improved the feel & might be a little less hold sensitive. Might just be my feeling though, bit subjective.
    Never had a 'modern' Webley so cant say anything about the Tempest Typhoon or Hurricane but would be interested in any positives or negatives compared to the 'old' Webley. Heard people decry them because they are not steel, but is that really an issue...? Light alloys are used in many applications quite happily, so as long as the choice is fit for puropse id be happy.
    So thats kind of where I am at the moment with thoughts on what might be feasible. Open tooo ideas, it might not get off the drawing board but id be interested to hear of any mods to get the potential accuracy up, (appart from pellet choice & practice),
    Thanks

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    ggggr is offline part time super hero and seeker of justice
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    Quote Originally Posted by trajectory View Post
    I suppose this was started by just wondering what sort of accuracy could be squeezed out of the original design. Taking up tolerances, trying to ensure the barrel went back to the same position for each shot etc. I think Webley reckoned a Premier could group in an inch at 30ft. I can get within that with my LP53 & I wondered what factors prevent me doing that with the Premier. I realise the Webley design was never meant to be a 10m paper puncher but despite all its positives I wondered if I could shoot tighter groups with it. I like its compactness & wouldnt really want to increase its length. I had wondered about making a barrel shroud to mount both sights on as one possibility of a mod that might have a benefit. I dont want to try & convert a Premier into a match pistol ( not a practical idea) but just wondering if there are any mods that can be done to make a Webley shoot as accurately as possible. Trigger sems ok, but sights & barrel placement seem possible areas to look at.......quite like the grip angle but have added a big lump of lead into the lower frame section to change weight distribution.I think it improved the feel & might be a little less hold sensitive. Might just be my feeling though, bit subjective.
    Never had a 'modern' Webley so cant say anything about the Tempest Typhoon or Hurricane but would be interested in any positives or negatives compared to the 'old' Webley. Heard people decry them because they are not steel, but is that really an issue...? Light alloys are used in many applications quite happily, so as long as the choice is fit for puropse id be happy.
    So thats kind of where I am at the moment with thoughts on what might be feasible. Open tooo ideas, it might not get off the drawing board but id be interested to hear of any mods to get the potential accuracy up, (appart from pellet choice & practice),
    Thanks
    Well the Tempest / Hurricane trigger mod gives a trigger that pisses all over earlier pistols https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....ebley-tempest/ . The Tempest is probably very underated but some of the ideas are good. (Imagine if earlier Webley pistols did not have the threaded guide/ slash endplug-- but retained the pivot screw. Also a fulcrum plate you can change is a good idea).

    Right--Just my feelings here. And starting with stuff that can be reversed. Somebody made up a rearsight for me for a Premier tha was more easily adjusted. It was a bloody big ugly alloy thing with a wide square notch. That gave a very good sight picture , with a fair bit of daylight either side of the foresight post.

    I think if you could get a wrap around set of grips made----that would give a better hold (Scroll down to look at Tempest ones http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.co.../label/Tempest ) I shoot 2 handed due to bad arms and that helps accuracy for me

    I usually cut 3 coils off a Webley pistol spring, so it just comes to the end of the cylinder. You dont seem to lose much power but easier to cock and less recoil.

    If you have the earlier type Premier with the screwed on piston washer, you could get someone to make you one that is about 5mm longer to shortstroke the gun and cut recoil.

    people use "power washers" or thin delrin washers at either end of the mainspring to reduce friction.

    If you wanted to go a bit further, get a Hurricane barrel (the end of the extended housing doesnt contain any more barrel than a Tempest) and maybe get some sort of insert made up so you can profile a foresight post to your liking . Another way would be to buy a rough Premier barrel and get the end welded up and profiled.

    Regarding securing the barrel in the breech jaws --for now---I'd be tempted to try one of those plastic plant ties that are a bit like cable ties but you can unclip---------------and tighten it each time you close the barrel up---just to try it for a few shots. If there is no improvement, then no point in trying to tighten the barrel catch etc.

    I hope some of this is of some use to you




    PS --always worth a look http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....t=webley+steyr
    Last edited by ggggr; 23-05-2020 at 03:56 PM.
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  7. #7
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    ggggr, thanks for your reply. Particularly interested in your opinion about the later triggers being that much better than the older models. That could be a major influence on what direction I start looking in. Didn't know the Hurricane barrel wasn't all barrel either. That in itself opens up some possibilities. Wrap round grips aren't a bad idea. Not sure if I will try to make a set for the Premier or hang on a bit to have a think about looking for a Tempest/Hurricane. Certainly plenty to think about. Might shrink a brass colar onto the rear of the Premier barrel to elliminate the possibility of the barrel going back pointed off to the left or right.Shimming the lug wouldnt take much effort so might have a bash at that too.learnt a bit, short stroking sounded like it was worthwhile, thanks

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    Looking at an exploded view of a Hurricane there is a passage screw & washer........what's the purpose of the passage? Is it a result of a machining process into the cylinder that needs capping?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trajectory View Post
    Looking at an exploded view of a Hurricane there is a passage screw & washer........what's the purpose of the passage? Is it a result of a machining process into the cylinder that needs capping?
    It's as you say. These Webleys don't have the removable rear end cap of the earlier ones; consequently there is no access at the rear of the cylinder to machine the transfer port from the inside. As a result, it is drilled from the outside of the frame to join the cylinder with the 'visible' port, so therefore it partly needs sealing off with a screw & washer. No need to try to remove this generally.

  10. #10
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    Hold & Trigger

    Since the end of 2018 I’ve been gradually rotating pistols from my collection for Pistol HFT comps at Lee valley, in the open sight category. (I won the 2018 open sight summer league with a FWB90)

    There was a Webley Premier I bought off here that was amazingly accurate for that type of pistol, I think mainly down to the trigger.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVe4STh...=11lhjozkkx5er

    Whoever had it before me had done a fantastic job fettling the trigger because it broke very lightly and crisply. Even a few ounces heavier and it would have opened the grouping up quite a bit.

    As mentioned above consistent hold is obviously crucial. With a two handed standing hold I always locked my fingers together the same way every time and tried to hold it as loosely as possible. Even a little finger out of place could result in a flyer. Also concentrating on pulling the trigger straight back (imagine pulling the trigger through the rearsight notch) seems to help.

    I think I came 4th with the premier, (up against pcp match pistols) and later came second with this Target gripped Hurricane with a wide trigger blade with a trigger I’d fettled:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/ByK-LE4B...=1oot0qkrplyis

    https://www.vintageairgunsgallery.co...be3b8a5fcd.jpg

    I think that’s as accurate a setup as I’ll ever get with a webley.
    I can measure the trigger pull weight on the premier if it would be useful.

    So without doing anything drastic, if you secured your barrel lock up, polished the trigger sears (if needed) worked out a consistent relaxed hold and zeroed it for that it might tighten the grouping up.

    You’ve made me want to try my LP53 on the next pistol hft Comp now!

    Cheers,
    Matt

  11. #11
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    Thats a nice Hurricane Matt, great set of grips. Interesting about the Premier too. The trigger on mine is pretty good bearing in mind its design. The weights acceptable & probably more importantly its consistant with very little backlash. I appreciate the fact they are a bit sensitive regarding taking up a grip & consistent hold. I have a Junior that needs to be held quite firmly to get the best out of it. A loose hold & its all over the place. The Premier seems to shoot better with a more relaxed grip....funny how things can vary
    The LP53 might well deserve an outing, not as clinical as a FWB but a great pistol.

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