Diopter sights musings, HW springers etc

[TRS1]

My interest has been piqued in these, but I have never used them to be honest!

Just for plinking fun most likely.

I'm aware of the Williams and HW offerings... any others to be aware of? I was thinking of ordering a Williams as they look well made and seem to have a good rep - but I am a total novice in this and have never really paid attention to it before!

Also, which front sight element would be best to used from the set that comes with the HW springers? Does it matter, or is it obvious when you start using it?


On the German site there is a HW77 with a diopter and hooded front element. I'm presuming that the standard HW77 front post is interchangeable with the HW springer hooded front sight? I suspect SS chop and change parts within their stock to offer more variety.

https://www.versandhaus-schneider.de...ducts_id/27122

I would be interested in the learned and non learned members' thoughts on diopters and their use. Any beginners advice would be gratefully received as well!

Hope everyone is well.

Thanks, Tim

[TonyL]

Hi Tim,

Great idea and something that I hope to do myself one day.

There are a fair few chaps who have gone the diopter route on sporting springers on here, mainly with the Williams sights, and they're sure to appear shortly with the usual excellent advice.

[zephyr]

Beware, the front sight on current Hull Cartridge (UK importer) Weihrauch rifles are not the interchangeable element type.

I recently fitted a Williams sight, the WGRS type (suitable for 11mm dovetail) and found the peep hole was too low. A piece of aluminium with a hole 8mm higher solved the problem elegantly, effectively and cheaply. I tried different elements in the replacement interchangeable Weihrauch front sight I got. Once I found what worked with my eyes the grouping was far better than I can achieve with the open (notch type) rear sight.

[eyebull]

The really nice williams diopter is practically unobtainable in the UK. After quite a bit of faffing around with trying to get the nice williams, being very disappointed with the williams I could get, and trying a couple of cheap diopters, in the end the best solution was to wait for a couple of 2nd hand anschutz diopters to turn up at reasonable prices. That's now what lives on my HW30S and Crosman bell target rifle.

As for foresight, I fitted an Airarms adaptor and front tunnel sight to the 30S, and fitted the fibreoptic 30S sight to a hand filed dovetail on the Crosman.

[TRS1]

Hi Tim,

Great idea and something that I hope to do myself one day.

There are a fair few chaps who have gone the diopter route on sporting springers on here, mainly with the Williams sights, and they're sure to appear shortly with the usual excellent advice.

Thanks Tony! Hope you're well.

Beware, the front sight on current Hull Cartridge (UK importer) Weihrauch rifles are not the interchangeable element type.

I recently fitted a Williams sight, the WGRS type (suitable for 11mm dovetail) and found the peep hole was too low. A piece of aluminium with a hole 8mm higher solved the problem elegantly, effectively and cheaply. I tried different elements in the replacement interchangeable Weihrauch front sight I got. Once I found what worked with my eyes the grouping was far better than I can achieve with the open (notch type) rear sight.

Thanks for the reply. So did you have the 'low' Williams sight? Trying do get my head around the different Williams sights at the moment. Do you know what model number yours is by chance?

What gun do you use it on?

The really nice williams diopter is practically unobtainable in the UK. After quite a bit of faffing around with trying to get the nice williams, being very disappointed with the williams I could get, and trying a couple of cheap diopters, in the end the best solution was to wait for a couple of 2nd hand anschutz diopters to turn up at reasonable prices. That's now what lives on my HW30S and Crosman bell target rifle.

As for foresight, I fitted an Airarms adaptor and front tunnel sight to the 30S, and fitted the fibreoptic 30S sight to a hand filed dovetail on the Crosman.

Thanks for the info. Which was the Williams that you were disappointed with? What was the issue?

Thanks again, Tim

[eyebull]

Forgot to add that the foresight that came with my 30S did not sit perpendicular due to a poorly cut barrel dovetail, hence the need to swap the sights around.

[eyebull]

Thanks for the info. Which was the Williams that you were disappointed with? What was the issue?

Thanks again, Tim

Sorry for the late reply, in between jobs at work.

I'm struggling to find images on Williams' website, but the version I had was adjusted via tiny grubscrews rather than thumbwheels. It was a little while ago now but I think the issue was running out of adjustment and the sight not being particularly user-friendly. The thumbwheel version is apparently a different beast, and this is the one people generally recommend.

[TRS1]

Sorry for the late reply, in between jobs at work.

I'm struggling to find images on Williams' website, but the version I had was adjusted via tiny grubscrews rather than thumbwheels. It was a little while ago now but I think the issue was running out of adjustment and the sight not being particularly user-friendly. The thumbwheel version is apparently a different beast, and this is the one people generally recommend.

No need to apologise, thanks for the reply!

[robthedog]

I have had both on HW break barrels for the last couple of years, using the HW front sight that the elements can be changed in, & have used a Beeman peep sight on a 77, 80, 99 & a 98 with a 95 barrel, i was then able to win a diopter on EB, so put that on the 98.
Just got an Original 75 so have put the others back to standard, get one its great fun

[Dagwood]

I've been using Williams peep sights on a variety of springers for the last two to three years. I find them more fun than scopes for target work up to 20m and more accurate than open iron sights.
Why more accurate? I think it has something to do with ones eyes and the need to focus on three items with iron sights whereas with peeps you concentrate on the front sight and target and ignore the rear aperture. It's similar to looking through a tiny hole in a sheet of paper or fence, you don't look at the paper or the fence, just the object beyond. The first cameras had pinholes and virtually everything viewed was in focus, it's similar with a peep sight and it seems to sharpen up my vision, and the same has been said by other forum contributors.
The model I bought is the Williams 5D-AG and that cost approx $45 from the States and about £30 off the Bay.
Which front sight element to use? That very much depends on a combination of target diameter and distance. Ideally when viewing say the black centre of a target the aperture you use should just give an image with a halo around the black. This aids the eye in resting the sights on the target and for some is easier to do than balancing a disc on top of a post type foresight as with iron sights. You can of course still use post sights if you prefer.
As mentioned not all HW rifles come with replaceable element type front sights, my HW99 is a good example. Heaven only knows why HW try to kid us it is replaceable by making the front sight look like the proper thing but with a fixed post only provided and no means of getting it out.
One complaint I have with the Williams is the size of screw used for the dovetail clamp. The heads are microscopically small and I immediately replaced mine with screws with a larger hex socket than the standard one fitted. The screws I bought only need a small torx socket to do them up and I only use finger pressure rather than use a handle and risk overtightening them.
hth
Jim
https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-5d-ag/
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018...sights-part-2/ link to Part one shown in Part 2

[zephyr]

Thanks Tony! Hope you're well.



Thanks for the reply. So did you have the 'low' Williams sight? Trying do get my head around the different Williams sights at the moment. Do you know what model number yours is by chance?

What gun do you use it on?



Thanks for the info. Which was the Williams that you were disappointed with? What was the issue?

Thanks again, Tim

I bought the sight from Brownells, it is the “WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT Remington 540 Adj Peep WGRS Receiver Rear Sight Black”. I have it fitted to my HW30S.

[TRS1]

I have had both on HW break barrels for the last couple of years, using the HW front sight that the elements can be changed in, & have used a Beeman peep sight on a 77, 80, 99 & a 98 with a 95 barrel, i was then able to win a diopter on EB, so put that on the 98.
Just got an Original 75 so have put the others back to standard, get one its great fun

Sounds good!

I've been using Williams peep sights on a variety of springers for the last two to three years. I find them more fun than scopes for target work up to 20m and more accurate than open iron sights.
Why more accurate? I think it has something to do with ones eyes and the need to focus on three items with iron sights whereas with peeps you concentrate on the front sight and target and ignore the rear aperture. It's similar to looking through a tiny hole in a sheet of paper or fence, you don't look at the paper or the fence, just the object beyond. The first cameras had pinholes and virtually everything viewed was in focus, it's similar with a peep sight and it seems to sharpen up my vision, and the same has been said by other forum contributors.
The model I bought is the Williams 5D-AG and that cost approx $45 from the States and about £30 off the Bay.
Which front sight element to use? That very much depends on a combination of target diameter and distance. Ideally when viewing say the black centre of a target the aperture you use should just give an image with a halo around the black. This aids the eye in resting the sights on the target and for some is easier to do than balancing a disc on top of a post type foresight as with iron sights. You can of course still use post sights if you prefer.
As mentioned not all HW rifles come with replaceable element type front sights, my HW99 is a good example. Heaven only knows why HW try to kid us it is replaceable by making the front sight look like the proper thing but with a fixed post only provided and no means of getting it out.
One complaint I have with the Williams is the size of screw used for the dovetail clamp. The heads are microscopically small and I immediately replaced mine with screws with a larger hex socket than the standard one fitted. The screws I bought only need a small torx socket to do them up and I only use finger pressure rather than use a handle and risk overtightening them.
hth
Jim
https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-5d-ag/
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018...sights-part-2/ link to Part one shown in Part 2

That's really useful info - thanks for taking the time. Much appreciated.

I bought the sight from Brownells, it is the “WILLIAMS GUN SIGHT Remington 540 Adj Peep WGRS Receiver Rear Sight Black”. I have it fitted to my HW30S.

Thanks! Was the issue that your front sight was out of true with this one? Were you happy with it other than that? Looks a tidy little thing.

[TRS1]

Apologies, one more question (well, for now anyway!).

How important is the length of the sight picture (if that's the term?!?)? As in distance between front and Peep sight? Obviously it has to be at least a certain distance, but is there a point at which it doesn't make a meaningful difference one way or another?

As, in would a full length 77 be preferable over a 77K? Or a open sighted 80 barrel over an 80K barrel? Or by that point is handling more important as there is already sufficient distance at K lengths (if that makes sense).

I have a 95 I could rebarrel, so there are a few simple options for me.

Thanks again, Tim

[robthedog]

I have rear sight just forward of the safety button

[PhatMan]

TRS1,

All my non-match springers have diopter sights fitted.

( Apologies for the crappy photos )

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ