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    Even more useful info!

    We have ordered the US cleaner recommended by Turnup as Mrs Bum can use that for jewellery etc as well (Do you remove the primer before cleaning?).
    I have so far managed to find a set of dies, a powder measure and I have a digital caliper. I will be getting a couple of books including that recommended by Tac. If I'm right that leaves a quality beam scale, a primer dispenser and press yet to find.

    I plan to drive to a decent shop that's quite a way off on Wednesday for some supplies. I am going to buy 1k Geco factory rounds, this should give me a couple of months to choose a press. I will also get 1k bullets, 1k primers and some powder. I have a choice of bullets ranging wildly in price. Given that I am shooting both informally and badly at a fixed distance, am I right thinking the cheaper ones will be fine? (LOS 123 or 115grn). Could you also give me a few powders to look out for too?
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    Just make sure your cheap rounds are Boxer primed. There used to be an awful lot of Berdan primed stuff out there. You will really notice the difference once you try to de-prime!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DedIdick View Post
    Just make sure your cheap rounds are Boxer primed. There used to be an awful lot of Berdan primed stuff out there. You will really notice the difference once you try to de-prime!!!
    Everything I've found on t'interwebs says they are, and the fellas at the club all use them. Gilles even managed "Good, keep" when I turned up with the first box a few weeks back.
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    LOS bullets are plated, not jacketed. They are adequate for plinking. Use data for cast bullets, keeps the velocity a little lower which is preferred in plated. I have previously found inconsistencies with these, my last lot had bullets keyholing.

    Powders wise, you’ll be well served with Vectan. I imagine you should never have supply issues that you can get with US powders. BA9 1/2 is a multi use powder covering lots of cartridges and loads.

    Personally I believe when you’re learning, you need the best components and ammunition that you can assemble/obtain. As you’ll know, ammunition performance can vary greatly, and if that variable is removed you’ll know that you are chasing your skill level and not taking negatives from poor performance of the ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simgre View Post
    LOS bullets are plated, not jacketed. They are adequate for plinking. Use data for cast bullets, keeps the velocity a little lower which is preferred in plated. I have previously found inconsistencies with these, my last lot had bullets keyholing.

    Powders wise, you’ll be well served with Vectan. I imagine you should never have supply issues that you can get with US powders. BA9 1/2 is a multi use powder covering lots of cartridges and loads.

    Personally I believe when you’re learning, you need the best components and ammunition that you can assemble/obtain. As you’ll know, ammunition performance can vary greatly, and if that variable is removed you’ll know that you are chasing your skill level and not taking negatives from poor performance of the ammo.
    Apart from the obvious, what is the difference between FMJ and plated? Please bear in mind this is all totally new to me!

    I have found 124grn FMJ Geco for €78 per thousand, (which I am currently using) so with the amorces at €25 per thousand that makes it half the cost of factory, plus powder. Powder cannot be bought easily by mail order, so I may see what powder the shop has and order the rest on t'interweb
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    Jacketed bullets have a formed, often copper*, jacket with a lead core, plated are a lead bullet with a light plating of copper.

    The jacketed bullets are more robust and can generally be shot at higher velocity.
    Last edited by rockdrill; 16-06-2020 at 01:36 PM. Reason: * for the pedantic, other metals may be used for jackets.
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    In short, as rockdrill said above. The copper jacket on an FMJ is a separate component, where as plated is a covering.

    I've just remembered you're using a Glock. If memory serves, the polygon rifling of the Glock does not generally shoot lead or plated bullets well. I remember that the manual also guards against it. Obviously there will be those that have found otherwise. All I'm saying, is double check first. Don't go dropping cash on a thousand bullets unless you know they'll fly straight out of your barrel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockdrill View Post
    Jacketed bullets have a formed copper jacket with a lead core, plated are a lead bullet with a light plating of copper.

    The jacketed bullets are more robust and can generally be shot at higher velocity.
    Some bullets are steel jacketed and copper plated.

    Some are brass jacketed and copper plated.

    I would always opt for either copper jacketed or cast lead.
    Cast lead is adequate at 25 yards and is accurate at 100 yards in a rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post
    Apart from the obvious, what is the difference between FMJ and plated? Please bear in mind this is all totally new to me!

    I have found 124grn FMJ Geco for €78 per thousand, (which I am currently using) so with the amorces at €25 per thousand that makes it half the cost of factory, plus powder. Powder cannot be bought easily by mail order, so I may see what powder the shop has and order the rest on t'interweb
    But for the plague, we would today be heading up from La tranche sur mer with the tintent on our way to near pont chateau. I would have been able to get you a press set up, teach you to reload, drop you off a nice leather badger bag and a bp box. And maybe convinced the missus that a place in France would be just right for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesG View Post
    But for the plague, we would today be heading up from La tranche sur mer with the tintent on our way to near pont chateau. I would have been able to get you a press set up, teach you to reload, drop you off a nice leather badger bag and a bp box. And maybe convinced the missus that a place in France would be just right for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post
    Even more useful info!

    We have ordered the US cleaner recommended by Turnup as Mrs Bum can use that for jewellery etc as well (Do you remove the primer before cleaning?).

    <snip>
    Yes, I size and deprime before US cleaning. I don't think the cleaner would get to the primer pockets if the primer were still in place.

    I load 50 neck down into the plastic brick thingy found inside most boxes of cartridges (make sure that they are open at the bottom - some are closed and this will stop the vibrations getting into the case) drop the brick into the basket and zap for (I think) 6 minutes - it's the longest setting on my bath. Then I carefully lift out the brick and basket together, remove the basket and invert it on to the brick, then holding the brick in place turn the whole thing the right way up so now you have the cases neck down in the basket - put it all back in the cleaner and zap it for another 6 minutes. As I said before do not let the cases sit in the bath for long after it has finished - the fine crud will settle out on to the cases and it is very hard to get off again. I set a kitchen timer 'cos it is very easy to get engrossed in sometihng else and forget and I certainly cannot stand and watch it for 6 minutes. I usually then just give it a blow to get most of the drops off and sit it on a radiator overnight to dry. If I am in a hurry then I dry then in an oven (not in the brick!) but I usually have plenty of dry ones from earlier sessions to use.

    Now is a good time to inspect the cases. IME when they are past it they develop cracks in the case mouth (that part gets worked each time you flare and crimp it). It is not particularly dangerous if a case is split and you miss it. It is supported during firing by the chamber wall but the crimp tension will not be so good. If it gets really bad there is a possibility of a piece of the case getting into the barrel but I have never had this, even with a case which ended up split from mouth to almost touching the rim (case material gets thicker towards the base). I bin them when they get a visible split.

    To prolong case life use the smallest amount of mouth flare and the smallest amount of crimp possible. You can barely detect the flare on mine and I crimp only enough to leave the mouth parallel (i.e. remove the flare) but no more. Care setting this up is invested because it rarely needs to be adjusted again unless changing to a different brand of case which is a slightly different length.

    I do not use case lube. I think it is more important on necked rifle cartridges than on straight pistol cartridges but others may know better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Yes, I size and deprime before US cleaning. I don't think the cleaner would get to the primer pockets if the primer were still in place.

    I load 50 neck down into the plastic brick thingy found inside most boxes of cartridges (make sure that they are open at the bottom - some are closed and this will stop the vibrations getting into the case) drop the brick into the basket and zap for (I think) 6 minutes - it's the longest setting on my bath. Then I carefully lift out the brick and basket together, remove the basket and invert it on to the brick, then holding the brick in place turn the whole thing the right way up so now you have the cases neck down in the basket - put it all back in the cleaner and zap it for another 6 minutes. As I said before do not let the cases sit in the bath for long after it has finished - the fine crud will settle out on to the cases and it is very hard to get off again. I set a kitchen timer 'cos it is very easy to get engrossed in sometihng else and forget and I certainly cannot stand and watch it for 6 minutes. I usually then just give it a blow to get most of the drops off and sit it on a radiator overnight to dry. If I am in a hurry then I dry then in an oven (not in the brick!) but I usually have plenty of dry ones from earlier sessions to use.

    Now is a good time to inspect the cases. IME when they are past it they develop cracks in the case mouth (that part gets worked each time you flare and crimp it). It is not particularly dangerous if a case is split and you miss it. It is supported during firing by the chamber wall but the crimp tension will not be so good. If it gets really bad there is a possibility of a piece of the case getting into the barrel but I have never had this, even with a case which ended up split from mouth to almost touching the rim (case material gets thicker towards the base). I bin them when they get a visible split.

    To prolong case life use the smallest amount of mouth flare and the smallest amount of crimp possible. You can barely detect the flare on mine and I crimp only enough to leave the mouth parallel (i.e. remove the flare) but no more. Care setting this up is invested because it rarely needs to be adjusted again unless changing to a different brand of case which is a slightly different length.

    I do not use case lube. I think it is more important on necked rifle cartridges than on straight pistol cartridges but others may know better.
    Case lube not required for straight wall pistol cases if carbide dies are being used
    Years ago guns & ammo did a reload test one 38 special case reloaded 150 times ,it had split almost all the way down to the rim .The test gun was a revolver so no feed issues which could happen in a semi and the cylinder sides supported the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    I do not use case lube. I think it is more important on necked rifle cartridges than on straight pistol cartridges but others may know better.
    I'd echo jb101's post - a carbide sizing die for your straight-sided pistol calibre cases won't need clean cases. I've been shooting the same 1000 or so .357 Magnum nickel cases since 2002 in my Ruger Super Redhawk from Sabre Defence Systems. Over that time they have ALL been reloaded at least five times with the same load of 6.5gr of Bullseye in a calibre-dedicated Lee turret press.

    The only time I don't shoot reloads is when our LGS has a freeby day to try out different brands - then I might buy some FMJ full-house loads to use to 'clean out' the barrel after a decent number of lead rounds have gone through.

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    Just powder to go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post
    Just powder to go!

    [IMG][/IMG]
    great......can you buy a dedicated crimp die ?
    you can use the seating die but better if you had a separate crimp

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