JSB Hades pellet expansion testing video now live...

[Shed tuner]

Whatever any of us might feel, the economic facts are that making a softer or deeper cut pellet just for the UK sub12 hunting market would not be viable.
pretty much every other country that allows air rifle hunting does so at FAC power.

I probably won't be very popular for this, but I really don't understand why our limit is set at such a marginal level for hunting. I don't mean the history on why 12 was set, I mean why allow hunting, and then set the limit for hunting so low ? If you have a permission to hunt on, you should be able to use say 16 or 20FP with just a basic SG type license, job done. It's made even worse by the stupid "any pellet" law, so you can be forced to hunt with around 10-10.5 FP. It's all too stupid for words And yes, I know you can hunt sucesfully with an 11Fp airgun, but that doesn't mean it isn't marginal.

[Born Again]

Older design hollow point pellets expand, but I never found any that are accurate. In bright light I've watched them corkscrew in flight.

[angrybear]

I probably won't be very popular for this, but I really don't understand why our limit is set at such a marginal level for hunting. I don't mean the history on why 12 was set, I mean why allow hunting, and then set the limit for hunting so low ? If you have a permission to hunt on, you should be able to use say 16 or 20FP with just a basic SG type license, job done. It's made even worse by the stupid "any pellet" law, so you can be forced to hunt with around 10-10.5 FP. It's all too stupid for words And yes, I know you can hunt sucesfully with an 11Fp airgun, but that doesn't mean it isn't marginal.

It's only marginal if you try to shoot at irresponsible range
For the small vermin that we have, rabbit or smaller, 12fpe is more than ample to 35-40yds.

[RussDouglasAGW]

Do you feel that the pellet should either be made of a softer lead or the grooves/cut out bits of the expansion part of the pellet be made deeper or 'looser' (sorry I'm trying to find the right wording) so they open up easier with less power?

Pete

Hi Pete, for a softer / more 'fragile' pellet design to allow increased expansion at sub-12, it would then be prone to excessive damage in the tin. That means manufacturers would have to sell them individually packed in rows in foam-lined trays (just like the high-end competition Match target pellets).
That would drive up costs and nobody would buy them.

That said I've also had two other existing brands of pellets recommended to me be a friend for decent / potentially better(?) sub-12 .177" expansion... so guess what - I'll be doing more testing on my channel soon, and no buckets will be harmed in the making of the sequel.

Cheers. Russ

[look no hands]

Hi Pete, for a softer / more 'fragile' pellet design to allow increased expansion at sub-12, it would then be prone to excessive damage in the tin. That means manufacturers would have to sell them individually packed in rows in foam-lined trays (just like the high-end competition Match target pellets).
That would drive up costs and nobody would buy them.

That said I've also had two other existing brands of pellets recommended to me be a friend for decent / potentially better(?) sub-12 .177" expansion... so guess what - I'll be doing more testing on my channel soon, and no buckets will be harmed in the making of the sequel.

Cheers. Russ

There is that, I am just asking these questions to keep the discussion going, the case is as well, is that I've not handled any Hades pellets yes, so can't tell how hard they are, they may be a very hard pellet and softening the lead mix may help a bit (but I expect JSB have done their research), I've always found Bisley pest control pellets to be a hard pellet, may be that's why they don't group very well, so may be softening them up a bit might help?

Anyway it's an interesting design of pellet and it's just a shame they don't fully work at our lower power levels.

Pete

[angrybear]

Here is my attempt at something more realistic, I taped some old overalls behind the target board to catch the pellets without further damage.
Hit the wood then stop in the cloth within a few inches.
.25cal, range 42yds at between 38-44ftlb depending on pellet.
L to R, FX hybrid, Hades, Predator Polymag, JSB Kings.
As you can see not much expansion from any of them.

[Brickhill]

I've done some "testing" in the field with Hades in .22 and .25. The first thing to say is that accuracy proved to be superb. So that vital issue has been ticked for hunting purposes.
In sub 12 ft lbs and head shooting rabbits hades will still pass through both in .22 and .25. In FAC .25 running at 50ft lbs Hades is excellent for shoulder and chest shots. I shot a few rabbits the other day and prepped them for the table and found pellets inside. They were really smashed up as they hit bone and heart and lungs. I put a range finder on these rabbits and they were all between 45 and 67 yards. They all dropped on the spot. I was selective regarding the shots I took and the angles were right. Everything dropped cleanly on the spot. Chest/ shoulder shots should only be taken with a FAC in in my opinion. Hades for hunting work very well indeed (for me).

[Black Beard]

A .22 Hades I got out of a squirrel showed a bit of expansion but not much. I think that there is more to it than just how much the head expands. Flat headed pellets don't expand but they stop faster than round heads.

[Hurricane]

I did a similar test myself, but then realised the result is meaningless because water is not skin, flesh & bone,

If I shoot a rabbit in the head with my .25cal the pellet doesn't exit, but if I use a gallon plastic tub of water which is 3x as deep as the rabbits head thickness the pellet goes straight through the bottom.

To my way of thinking a rabbits head is about 3" (75mm) thick, so to test the expansion you need a target of the same thickness at around 25yds that the pellet doesn't quite fully penetrate.

While on the face of it, it doesn't appear realistic but a wad of newspapers, or a bag of sand would probably be more like the correct resistance/thickness ratio.

Hades are stunningly accurate in both my sub12 & FAC .25's .

Just been trying a sample pack of Hades .22 at 30ft.lb and quite by accident found I could check the expansion after I set up a 'silent' back stop to test at the 'old house' where we have nabours.
I shot through about 7" of old 'damp' vermiculite/soot which had small 'lumps' of hard tar from chimney in it, the pellets just came out the back into some cloth before they could hit the hard backstop. Not quite a rabbit but it was interesting.
My normal JSB exact showed hardly any expansion, about 2% on the CSA on average, the Hades at first glance where hardly better, but on measuring expanded by about 10% on the CSA. Out to 50yards the Hades match the accuracy of the Exact, and seem to have the same trajectory.
I'm thinking that at £2 per 1000 extra, for a hunting pellet it will hardly make any differance to costs, so might as well use them. Later this week should be able to use them out in the field and see if I notice any differance on the buns.

[bill57]

My tuppenceworth. I've used Hades in .22 for rabbits at 30 ft-lb, and while they are accurate and work well, retrieved pellets have not shown any noticeable head expansion. From Andy's Airgun Review, his tests showed them to have a poorer BC than same weight Exacts, losing more velocity over the same distance. He concluded that it was probably down to the poorer aerodynamics of the Hades head, which seems entirely plausible.

I probably won't buy them again for this reason. If it was a trade-off, ie. poorer BC but decent expansion, then that would go in their favour, but not otherwise. They may prove to work better at even higher power levels, but then it's back to trade-offs as you're heading for subsonic rimfire territory. In truth I find that Exacts or other round head pellets perform exceptionally well at this power level and sensible ranges, assuming I do my bit properly in getting them there.