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Thread: Licence free, What is an air rifle, What is a pistol?

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    Antoni's Avatar
    Antoni is offline There's nothing cushy about life in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps!
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    Licence free, What is an air rifle, What is a pistol?

    In another thread I asked for a source of airgun barrel to fit to a pistol. One suggestion (thank you Bighit) was that I buy a low cost sub-12 .25 rifle and harvest 7½ inches of its barrel.

    If I did that carefully the rifle may still be useable, but would it still be a rifle - or would it become a pistol?

    Spent some time Googling and can't find the UK definition. The important bit is the 6 / 12 FtLb business. If lopping off said amount of a rifle's barrel left it still capable of 6+ FtLb then it would have to retain its status as a rifle.

    What is the definition???

    The obvious downside to this whole theory is that I'd end up with a cheap rifle but would then be unwilling to carry out the necessary molestation. As we all know, stuff expands to the extent of space available. Not good.
    Last edited by Antoni; 02-08-2020 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Thanks for moving!!
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    The S1 definition of a rifle is minimum 300mm barrel and 600mm overall. Anything smaller is a pistol. I presume the same for airguns. So you can have something smaller as long as it is under 6ft lbs.

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    Not sure if that holds for airguns, leshiys are sold with 250mm barrels as standard

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    In sect 1 "handguns" are illegal so we have "long barrelled pistols" to make the 300/600 rule.

    in sub 12fpe air rifles must be over 600mm & shoot from the shoulder, or have a min 300mm barrel, any take down or folding stock air rifle must have a lock to prevent it shooting without the stock in place or if it can shoot in "pistol" configuration it must be sub 6fpe.

    There is no such thing as a section 1 air pistol, if over 6fpe it's sec 5 prohibited.

    so if your cut down air rifle is still over 600mm & has it's shoulder stock it's still legal.
    Last edited by angrybear; 02-08-2020 at 10:40 PM.

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    The sub 600mm overall length and 300mm barrel length are nothing to do with sub 6/12 ftlb air pistols/rifles. The law on "handguns" does not apply to air guns. A rifle has to be under 12ftlb. A pistol has to be under 6. Their shape and design defines what they are and their size is irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aris View Post
    The S1 definition of a rifle is minimum 300mm barrel and 600mm overall. Anything smaller is a pistol. I presume the same for airguns. So you can have something smaller as long as it is under 6ft lbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by angrybear View Post
    In sect 1 "handguns" are illegal so we have "long barrelled pistols" to make the 300/600 rule.

    in sub 12fpe air rifles must be over 600mm & shoot from the shoulder, or have a min 300mm barrel, any take down or folding stock air rifle must have a lock to prevent it shooting without the stock in place or if it can shoot in "pistol" configuration it must be sub 6fpe.

    There is no such thing as a section 1 air pistol, if over 6fpe it's sec 5 prohibited.

    so if your cut down air rifle is still over 600mm & has it's shoulder stock it's still legal.
    Not true for airguns. Barrel and overall length are not part of the definition. Original power/intent is what matters. This is why it's not legal to stick a shoulder stock on a pistol and up the power to 12 ftlbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapshot View Post
    Not true for airguns. Barrel and overall length are not part of the definition. Original power/intent is what matters. This is why it's not legal to stick a shoulder stock on a pistol and up the power to 12 ftlbs.
    Do you happen to have a reference for this in the firearms act? Genuinely curious. Even what the cps say is a bit confusing.

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms

    An air weapon is defined, under section 1(3)(b) and 57(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 as:

    "an air rifle, air gun or air pistol which does not fall within section 5 (1) (a) and which is not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of the Firearms Act to be specially dangerous".

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    Quote Originally Posted by aris View Post
    Do you happen to have a reference for this in the firearms act? Genuinely curious. Even what the cps say is a bit confusing.
    He is referring to S.5 which says-

    Weapons subject to general prohibition.
    (1)A person commits an offence if, without authority, he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires .
    ....
    [F5(aba)any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, OTHER THAN AN AIR WEAPON.......

    An air pistol isn't actually defined anywhere as far as I know so leaves it open to interpretetation as to whether it's what it was originally sold as,? or if it's converted to a carbine does that still count? Or even the other way where air rifles have been cut down to pistols, seen 2 Rapids recently that were chopped are they still rifles or pistols? Has there actually been a prosecution ?
    Last edited by bezzer; 03-08-2020 at 08:30 AM.

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    The barrel length isn’t the definition because that would rule a number of rifles, some of which are on sale as being sect 5 pistols, one is quite popular.

    The last time this came up it was deemed that if it could be held and used in a way that a reasonable person thinks it’s a pistol then it is. It’s probably an area that would only be defined by a court case and I don’t think anyone wants to put themselves through that to find out or prove a point.

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    The 600/3000 rule cant apply to airguns as otherwise my skan r32 would be illegal which it aint. Also i fitted a 10" barrel to my crosman backpacker which would make that illegal, crosman pistols come with 10" barrels also again they would be illegal. Its the over 6ftlb in pistols and over 12ftlb in rifles that dictates if its illegal or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILBA View Post
    . Its the over 6ftlb in pistols and over 12ftlb in rifles that dictates if its illegal or not.
    Yebbut that comes back round to what makes it an air pistol or air rifle to start with ?

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    Page 89 here https://www.25bedfordrow.com/cms/doc...son_090715.pdf

    I dont have time to read it so some one here may want to read and give the relevant reply on what it covers .

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    Page 89 here https://www.25bedfordrow.com/cms/doc...son_090715.pdf

    I dont have time to read it so some one here may want to read and give the relevant reply on what it covers .
    It doesn't cover the definition of a pistol unfortunately. There isn't one in law, it would therefore fall upon what a reasonable person would decide is a pistol.

    There's a legal argument detailed about if a pistol over 6 ft-lb is section 5 but it then falls back on an air pistol being called an air pistol without defining that unless it's a section 5...
    Last edited by RobF; 03-08-2020 at 09:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    Page 89 here https://www.25bedfordrow.com/cms/doc...son_090715.pdf

    I dont have time to read it so some one here may want to read and give the relevant reply on what it covers .
    It mentions lots of things but not what defines air pistols from rifles.

    The reason I state 600mm overall OR a 300mm barrel is because that seems to be how manufactures define it.

    Some examples;
    The Skan mini m-32 is both over 600mm & has a barrel over 300mm,
    FX Verminator (mk1) has a barrel only 210mm but the overall length is over 600mm.
    HW100 bullpup is only 560mm overall (silencer removed) but the barrel is 310mm.
    Hatsan AT-P2 with the stock removed is both under 600mm overall & has a sub300mm barrel it is therefore a 6fpe pistol

    As for people stating "I fitted X to Y which would make it illegal"
    Yes it might well do
    Last edited by angrybear; 03-08-2020 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #15
    Murphy is offline Cooee! Chase me you naughty boys!
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    I asked a policeman years ago and he just said he would use common sense.

    Can it be fired easily at arms length?

    Yes, then its a pistol.

    Do not know how well that would stand up in court.
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