gun bore oil

[loiner1965]

You are welcome to post it where you want Tac.

I've already asked on that forum about 3 months ago, it was a huge thread and the conclusion was I can't clean and it has never happened to any shooter on there.

I have read about a 1000 ways to clean a gun, and I'm not stupid, so I guess I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
I think I maybe not drying the bore well enough?

I've even followed the original owners instructions on cleaning when we bought the pistol (we had a practical lesson), still the gun looks like this after a week. So do all my other steel guns, the Stainless ones don't

I'm going to make the bog roll cleaning rod over the weekend, we'll be shooting on Sunday so will have plenty to clean after.
I'm hoping a good dry with toilet/kitchen roll will sort the problem out.

Is there any reason why I can't bore oil with fully synithetic motor oil, 2 stroke or 4 rather than the thin type 'gun oils'?

Stab in the dark
If it is rust are you sure it’s starts in the barrel and not from nipple channel as you know bp is water absorbing

[tacfoley]

You are welcome to post it where you want Tac.

I've already asked on that forum about 3 months ago, it was a huge thread and the conclusion was I can't clean and it has never happened to any shooter on there.

I have read about a 1000 ways to clean a gun, and I'm not stupid, so I guess I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
I think I maybe not drying the bore well enough?

I've even followed the original owners instructions on cleaning when we bought the pistol (we had a practical lesson), still the gun looks like this after a week. So do all my other steel guns, the Stainless ones don't

I'm going to make the bog roll cleaning rod over the weekend, we'll be shooting on Sunday so will have plenty to clean after.
I'm hoping a good dry with toilet/kitchen roll will sort the problem out.

Is there any reason why I can't bore oil with fully synithetic motor oil, 2 stroke or 4 rather than the thin type 'gun oils'?

Well, if you've tried MLF there's not a lot I can say - maybe you used a different name there? I've been there since 2005, BTW.

Anyhow, what ever else you end up doing do NOT under any circumstances use ANY petroleum or carbon-based cleaners on ANY BP firearm - NOT because it it dangerous, but because due to chemistry, the crud fouling from the natural flagration of BP will combine with the petrochemical whatever to form a nigh-on impossible to remove 'cake' - in fact, it is as alike to the black cooked-on carbon deposit in a worn-out motor car cylinder head as to be indistinguishable, and I'm sure you know how easy THAT is to remove by hand...

Leaving the bore dry is never a good idea, notwithstanding that you live in a dry house.

Back in the late 1870s. the Swiss, who know a thing or two about mechanical mechanisms, decided to totally change the way they looked after their service firearms of all kinds. They concocted a totally natural grease from lanolin and tallow, called it Waffenfett [gun grease] and used it from then on until right now as a cleaner and preservative for first of all the Model of 1879, then the 1889, then the 1900 - iow, the IG 1900, K11 and K31 rifles. The introduction of fully-automatic weapons brought about a new formulation, called, with amazing lack of imagination 'Automatenfett' [full-auto gun grease]. It is black and gloopy and designed for high-speed movement of high-temperature rifles and machine guns - NOT any kind of manually operated firearm. It also migrates up your nose, into your ears and most everywhere imaginable.

Back to good old-style waffenfett. The regime is simple, and in fact ANY modern light grease will do the same job - note that it must NOT be a petroleum-base product. After shooting, and while the gun is still warm, a patch loaded with the stuff is pushed up and down the barrel at least ten times. This cleans the bore very effectively. After that, another patch, heavily-greased, is pushed up the bore to the muzzle, where it is removed, leaving a layer of grease in the bore.

Before you shoot again, you patch it out, and when finished, start over.

My K11 was made in 1900 and my K31 in 1944. Both were in service and both were subsequently sold to their owners and used for many years thereafter. Both have totally mint bores, just like the vast majority of Swiss rifle bores are, simply because of the use of this régime of cleaning. Remember, NO petroleum-based grease!!!!

The Swiss don't even use oil, either, just application of a light greasing wherever there is contact between metal components.

I recommend you to try it - after a number of disasters like the one you've shown us, what have you got to lose?

Ask anybody here who has seen my Swiss rifles if I'm lying to you.

[enfield2band]

You are welcome to post it where you want Tac.

I've already asked on that forum about 3 months ago, it was a huge thread and the conclusion was I can't clean and it has never happened to any shooter on there.

I have read about a 1000 ways to clean a gun, and I'm not stupid, so I guess I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
I think I maybe not drying the bore well enough?

I've even followed the original owners instructions on cleaning when we bought the pistol (we had a practical lesson), still the gun looks like this after a week. So do all my other steel guns, the Stainless ones don't

I'm going to make the bog roll cleaning rod over the weekend, we'll be shooting on Sunday so will have plenty to clean after.
I'm hoping a good dry with toilet/kitchen roll will sort the problem out.

Is there any reason why I can't bore oil with fully synithetic motor oil, 2 stroke or 4 rather than the thin type 'gun oils'?

It definitely sounds to me that you are not drying the bore, or as loiner said, the nipple channel. I would be wary of using toilet tissue with all the fine fibres that can come off. It might cause more problems than it will solve. I would stick to cloth patches.
Use the hottest water you can stand, or wear gloves and pour boiling water down the bore and let it drain out. That will leave the metal hot and if you dry it with a patch the heat should dry off the nipple and the channel. Try drying the nipple with a cotton bud just in case there is any water lodged in there.
Don't forget that oil floats on water so if there is any moisture in the bore it will be trapped under the oil. The bore must be perfectly dry.
There is no reason why you cannot use engine oil but you would have to remove it before using the gun. It might be too thick to burn off with a couple of caps and you could get the odd misfire at first if there is any left in the nipple.
Fully synthetic oil I'm not sure about. It is silicon and that can be a pain to remove at the best of times.

[Turnup]

I winder if the crud is from the ingnition channel or (if it has one) the patent breech. Try drying the gun in your oven - 20 mins at 120C - everyone I know dries using an oven.

[loiner1965]

right i am home now as my last reply was by using my phone....
i would clean you barrel again exactly the same way and leave as normal.
when you run a patch in it only do it for the first inch and see if you get the rust / brown again.....keep moving down bore and remove and check each stage.
i have a portable steam press with a gun attachment on end which as a nozzle on.
buy one of these or similiar ( old steam iron remote station) and remove nipple ( put in ultrasonic tank ) and use steam from nipple channel and blast barrel in to a bucket.....do it both ways until clear water comes out.....then dry in oven lol
dont put in dishwasher unless stainless steel as some blueing may be removed.
i will try and find the uk test on the best rust preventing oil on youtube for you....
sometimes i just boil the kettle and pour it down the barrel each way......dry.....oil.....forget lol

[MrChipShoulder]

Thank you guys for your help.

I do use a different name on the MLF.

I used to clean with boiling water, and then swapped over to cold water.
I used dish soap and ballistol (moose milk).
All combos above used, no difference, I just keep getting rust within a few days.

This is why I keep asking the question. It seems really odd to me that I'm doing the same as most other people, but I'm the only one getting the rust.

How I solve the issue now is to go back to each gun cleaned about every 3-4 days and patch until clean and re-oil.
After about 3 re-patches and oiling sessions, I get to a point where the bore stays clean and I'm only pulling out oil a few days later.

The oven option is not really going to work as half my arms are long barrel.

I do like the idea of a thick grease, can anybody tell me an off the shelf UK brand they know works?
One of the biggest problems I have on forums, especially MLF, is most people keep giving me brands only in the US, cos it's a US forum. This is why I asked the question again here, hoping to get a more UK based answer.

[tacfoley]

I do like the idea of a thick grease, can anybody tell me an off the shelf UK brand they know works?
One of the biggest problems I have on forums, especially MLF, is most people keep giving me brands only in the US, cos it's a US forum. This is why I asked the question again here, hoping to get a more UK based answer.

It's NOT a thick grease, it's a THIN grease, of the kind used to pack water pumps/bearings or similar. A similar light grease can be bought in Halfords, or your local auto spares/accessory store. It is about the same colour as honey or peanut butter, but slightly thicker in consistency. Lots of us Swiss shooters as well as BP shooters use LM2, a light lithium-grease used for many HT applications, but also one that will work well on the cylinder pin of any BP revolver. CarLube is the brand, here in UK.

[MrChipShoulder]

Thank you Tac.
Is this it?
https://www.monandborder.co.uk/search.php/lm2

If yes, I'll get some tomorrow, seems Halfords don't list it on their website, I can get it from my local Motor factor.

I'll also do my best to dry out the barrels on the next clean.

Hopefully with dryer barrels and this LM2, I'll be able to get on top of my rusting issue.

Just as a side note, I've gone back through my guns this evening and re-patched and re-oiled them all again after their clean the other week.
There was some dirty patches, but not too much (other than the pistol patch I just showed you), but they were quite dry. The oil seems to have buggered off.
I kept patching until spotless again and re-oiled them.
I also checked them with a bore light, they all looked shiny.
So no damage that I can see or feel thus far!


UPDATE 6-7-2020
Carlube LM2 grease now bought.

[tacfoley]

[QUOTE=MrChipShoulder;7911016]Thank you Tac.
Is this it?
https://www.monandborder.co.uk/search.php/lm2[QUOTE]

Yup.

[Peter Dunkley]

Hi I dont use a muzzle loader but shoot 12g BP shotguns. I have done numerous tests on the rust proofing of steel. The only oil which will hold back rust on new clean mild steel for months on end. "on the roof of my shed in winter" is ACF 50.
A light coating in a clean barrel WILL stop it rusting.

[enfield2band]

The rust may be due the metal surface being absolutely clean. The oil, as well as putting up a protective barrier, will solve the problem of the clean surface.
This cylinder was cleaned in hot water and dried. It was then put under the grill to make sure the nooks and crannies had dried out. When I took it off the grill, still fairly warm, this rust had formed.
It can't be from the blackpowder residue so I can only think it was because of the perfectly clean surface that the metal was able to oxidize from the damp in the air.
When browning a barrel it works the same way. The chemical, Ammonium Chloride, cleans the surface off and allows it to oxidize.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqMch2rV/Rust.jpg

[MrChipShoulder]

Hi I dont use a muzzle loader but shoot 12g BP shotguns. I have done numerous tests on the rust proofing of steel. The only oil which will hold back rust on new clean mild steel for months on end. "on the roof of my shed in winter" is ACF 50.
A light coating in a clean barrel WILL stop it rusting.

Never heard of ACF-50 before.
Seems it's petroleum based though.

[Peter Dunkley]

Never heard of ACF-50 before.
Seems it's petroleum based though.

I would not have thought the minute amount left after a dry mop would do harm! There is no need to soak the bore in it!

[MrChipShoulder]

So it seems that the LM2 grease Tac advised is working.

This is the patch that came out my daughters 36cal pistol 4 days after the last clean after a day of shooting it. With my old cleaning system, the patch would have showed brown rust in the oil after this length of time. As you can see, nothing but grease now.

https://ibb.co/hsPyf6j

I did make one change to the cleaning process last Sunday though, and that was to blast an air line up and down the bore after washing. In all honesty, this may well have gone quite a long way to helping as I'm sure it would have dried the barrel out better than patches? I don't have a water trap on the air line, but it doesn't seem to have mattered on this occasion.

I was trying to keep away from compressed air as it's nice to be able to clean without the use of large tools, but needs must some times! I guess it doesn't really matter, as I very much doubt I'll ever need to 'field clean' any of my guns, always workshop cleaning at home! Plus I've taken to using my ultra sonic cleaner for my stainless revolver anyway, so what the hell, power tools here we come !!!

I know we 'butt heads' Tac, but thanks for the help on LM2 grease.
Thanks where thanks is due

[tacfoley]

Jeremiah Johnson didn't have no fancy air line...just sayin'