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Thread: Rare Diana 2 pistol missed at auction

  1. #1
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Rare Diana 2 pistol missed at auction

    I have just been watching a rare version of the Diana Original 2 pop-out pistol in an auction (Bearnes Hampton & Littlewood) to see if anyone appreciated it for what it was, or if it would go for a knock-down price to an unknowing bidder. In the event, it never reached its reserve of £40 (with a full tin of Sussex Armoury pellets). So a bargain was missed for anyone who collects pop-outs and doesn’t have one of these. I have only ever come across a handful of this particular variant in 35 years of collecting.





    This raises a question that has always bothered me. If someone spots a rarity in an auction that is very likely to be missed by other collectors (for example if it has been poorly photographed, or if it is partly hidden in a job lot), is it a good thing or not to post a heads-up? Obviously if you want the item for yourself then it is no-brainer, but if you don’t, then you could be doing another collector a big favour by bringing it to his attention. The downside is that if the collector has already spotted it and is keeping things close to his chest, you could scupper his chances of getting something that he really wants at a good price.

    What do others think?

    In this particular case I discussed it before the auction with Danny, and between us we decided it would probably be best to keep stumm and let the pistol find its own price. We hadn’t bargained for the item not reaching its reserve, so no one was done a favour, least of all the seller !

  2. #2
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    I think it's a case of 'Dammed' if you do and 'Dammed' if you don't.

    Another age ago, I and another BBS member of my acquaintance saw that a well known auction house in Sussex was auctioning a lot of old CO2 air pistols. We crept down there without a word to anyone else and basically between the pair of us got the lot

    Happy days

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    I tend to agree with you and Danny (and I’m someone who never spots these things). If you keep schtum the item goes to the key eyed collector, or one of them if more than one spots it. If you post a heads up it goes to the bloke with the deepest pockets. Somehow that seems a bit unsportsmanlike (and yes, I do know that is how auctions work )

    Your post after the event is appreciated though as education for dimwits like me and encouragement that even at auction there can be bargains to be had
    Morally flawed

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    There's one like it for 65 Euro as we speak, on the German site. Not very rare over there , I see them quite often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvd View Post
    There's one like it for 65 Euro as we speak, on the German site. Not very rare over there , I see them quite often.
    Not like this one! The one on eGun is much more common. This one has smooth grips back and front, hence John saying it's rare.
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    I say keep stumm. If a collector is serious , he will have seen it. Remember the .25 BSA that went for £50 a couple of months back? We can all live in hope

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    Way too often via internet searches I have found items that I missed that I believe I would now own had I known about them before the auction ended. Though I do have to agree that damned if you do and damned if you don't. You won't be able to please everybody. I would rather see a rarity before hand and if I am fortunate enough to add it to the collection that is great. If not, I still know that they are out there and add to my knowledge base. After 55 years of collecting there are still so many things that I am learning. Thank goodness for these forums and their members who thanklessly share their knowledge.

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    I have had the same dilemma. Are you flagging up a bargain, or screwing up some else’s ability to get one?

    I’d never have spotted that model 2 as rare. More detail?

  9. #9
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    Not like this one! The one on eGun is much more common. This one has smooth grips back and front, hence John saying it's rare.
    Or to give a bit more detail, there are two common wood grip versions of the Diana 2 (or Original 2). The earlier one has a completely smooth grip, whereas the later one has pressed chequering on both sides, and machined ridges round the the grip edges. The third rarely seen version is characterised by having chequering on both grip faces and smooth grip edges, and is usually darker in colour than the other two versions. The lack of ridges is not easy to spot from a typical face-on photo unless you are specifically looking for them. It seems reasonable to assume that the rare version was a short lived transitional model that appeared between the other two, but there is no firm evidence for this.

    A couple of other examples can be seen in the Vintage Airguns Gallery here https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....l-2/#post-4390

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    I agree keeping shtum until after the auction is the classy thing to do.

    Matt

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    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    Or to give a bit more detail, there are two common wood grip versions of the Diana 2 (or Original 2). The earlier one has a completely smooth grip, whereas the later one has pressed chequering on both sides, and machined ridges round the the grip edges. The third rarely seen version is characterised by having chequering on both grip faces and smooth grip edges, and is usually darker in colour than the other two versions. The lack of ridges is not easy to spot from a typical face-on photo unless you are specifically looking for them. It seems reasonable to assume that the rare version was a short lived transitional model that appeared between the other two, but there is no firm evidence for this.

    A couple of other examples can be seen in the Vintage Airguns Gallery here https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....l-2/#post-4390
    I never give a heads up, on the reason that those with the deepest pockets will always get it. as it don't give collectors like myself a chance to buy something, at not always a bargain price. but a fair one. the down side to these auctions is that not many are willing to post guns.or if they do they charge a lot of money in doing so. by the way l have got one with the ridges around the edges which is stamped Original and made in Germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptdunk View Post
    I agree keeping shtum until after the auction is the classy thing to do.

    Matt
    Agreed ... may seem callous but it is a cruel world out there. I have seen a few auction items that interested me before a 'heads up' on here and elsewhere and have quietly cursed. Some I have bought, others I have missed and have never known if I had paid more than if the 'heads up' had not been there.
    Mind you, on some occasions I have visited the auction (like to do that anyway) to see for myself and have seen the said item is in very very poor condition but then sell to 'the internet' at what I thought to be a far too high a price. At that time I have thought 'poor bu****, I wonder if they know what they have just bought?'

    Cheers, Phil

  13. #13
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Russell View Post
    Agreed ... may seem callous but it is a cruel world out there. I have seen a few auction items that interested me before a 'heads up' on here and elsewhere and have quietly cursed. Some I have bought, others I have missed and have never known if I had paid more than if the 'heads up' had not been there.
    Mind you, on some occasions I have visited the auction (like to do that anyway) to see for myself and have seen the said item is in very very poor condition but then sell to 'the internet' at what I thought to be a far too high a price. At that time I have thought 'poor bu****, I wonder if they know what they have just bought?'

    Cheers, Phil
    Yes, I agree with your sentiment Phil. If you know, using your own expertise, or from being able to examine an item, that there is something seriously wrong with it that the average bidder might not pick up on, then it would be the gentlemanly thing to do, to flag it up on the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    Yes, I agree with your sentiment Phil. If you know, using your own expertise, or from being able to examine an item, that there is something seriously wrong with it that the average bidder might not pick up on, then it would be the gentlemanly thing to do, to flag it up on the forum.
    If I saw a fault by looking at a photo then most likely I would flag it up but can never remember doing so ... faults I have seen in these circumstances have been glaringly obvious to anyone or noted in the item description anyway e.g. cracked stock. But faults can be seen at the auction that are not obvious from a photo. At times I have pointed these out to the person next to me who is examining the items ... usually greeted with a gutteral 'grmmph' but sometimes a 'thank you'. I could not post about such faults as I visit on auction day.
    Cheers, Phil

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    harvey_s is offline Lost love child of David Niven and Victoria Beckham
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptdunk View Post
    I agree keeping shtum until after the auction is the classy thing to do.

    Matt
    Yep, I agree - let it find it's own value. The Internet means that most auctions are fairly well monitored already...

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