Jung Roland pistol

[ggggr]

After seeing the pictures on this thread http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....t-Epsom-Photos and asking CCDJG what the pistol was--then looking at pics on Dannys site https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....nd-air-pistol/ I was wondering if anyone could tell me much about it from a technical/ quality point of view?
I'd love to get one apart -BUT (as usual ) dont want to pay much for something that at best would be a plinker. Aslo if it was built like a Chinese S2 it would be quite upsetting.
There is something about it that seems to interest me--yet the grips look almost as ugly as the Voere https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....r-pistol-ldp4/

[draitzer]

Well...like you, I'd been curious about these pistols, so when the chance to buy one for $US45 came up, I snagged it. Upon checking it out I realized these are rather cheesy things and I was happy to sell it on for what I paid. Mine had "Karl Gunther Augsburg" marking, likely a retailer.

Don R.

[ccdjg]

Hi Guy,

Here is a pic of the pistol dismantled. It is unusual in the piston having a welded-on protrusion for engaging with the sear. The only other pistol I can think of with such an arrangement is the Webley Whiting.






The pistol is quite well made with some attention to detail not found in many medium- priced break-barrel pistols. For example the stock retaining screws are bedded into nicely countersunk grommets, the cylinder plug is integral with the solid spring guide, there are no rough welds hidden under the grip, and the bluing is good quality.





On the downside, it is a bit top heavy, the grip shape is ugly, and the trigger is harsh. It is easy to cock. For build quality, I would rate it on a par with the Slavia ZVP and not quite as good as the Diana 5. Streets above the Voere LDP4, which IMO is by far the worst air pistol ever made. For me, the Jung Roland is an interesting and quite rare collectable and I am glad I acquired it when I had the chance.

[ggggr]

Hi Guy,

Here is a pic of the pistol dismantled. It is unusual in the piston having a welded-on protrusion for engaging with the sear. The only other pistol I can think of with such an arrangement is the Webley Whiting.






The pistol is quite well made with some attention to detail not found in many medium- priced break-barrel pistols. For example the stock retaining screws are bedded into nicely countersunk grommets, the cylinder plug is integral with the solid spring guide, there are no rough welds hidden under the grip, and the bluing is good quality.





On the downside, it is a bit top heavy, the grip shape is ugly, and the trigger is harsh. It is easy to cock. For build quality, I would rate it on a par with the Slavia ZVP and not quite as good as the Diana 5. Streets above the Voere LDP4, which IMO is by far the worst air pistol ever made. For me, the Jung Roland is an interesting and quite rare collectable and I am glad I acquired it when I had the chance.

Thanks John. The Diana Modell 5 has a lug on the piston (from memory) and so does the Chinese S2 I always thought the S2 was a sort of copy of the Diana Modell 5------ but am now wondering if it is closer to the Jung Roland???
I actually think the Slavia ZVP is well built and prefer the piston set up in that.

Ps--anyone got a piccy of an Chinese S2 stripped to compare it?

[frakor]

Hi Guy,

Here is a pic of the pistol dismantled. It is unusual in the piston having a welded-on protrusion for engaging with the sear. The only other pistol I can think of with such an arrangement is the Webley Whiting.






The pistol is quite well made with some attention to detail not found in many medium- priced break-barrel pistols. For example the stock retaining screws are bedded into nicely countersunk grommets, the cylinder plug is integral with the solid spring guide, there are no rough welds hidden under the grip, and the bluing is good quality.





On the downside, it is a bit top heavy, the grip shape is ugly, and the trigger is harsh. It is easy to cock. For build quality, I would rate it on a par with the Slavia ZVP and not quite as good as the Diana 5. Streets above the Voere LDP4, which IMO is by far the worst air pistol ever made. For me, the Jung Roland is an interesting and quite rare collectable and I am glad I acquired it when I had the chance.

John, did you ever look through the barrel?
The rifling in the Jung Roland rifle is very interesting.

=============
Frank

[ccdjg]

John, did you ever look through the barrel?
The rifling in the Jung Roland rifle is very interesting.

=============
Frank

Well Frank, I must admit that mine is smoothbore, but according to catalogue listings the Jung Roland was also available with a rifled barrel for a small surcharge. I can't say what the quality of the rifling was like though.


Guy, you are right about the Chinese S2 having a piston lug (just looked at the one I have) and probably the Diana 5, which I have never had cause to dismantle before. Does anyone know of any other pistols that have this feature?

Cheers
John

[ccdjg]

Hi Guy,
If you are right about the RO71, RO72 and Mondial Oklahoma, then it looks like the use of ‘lugged’ pistons is a lot more common than I thought. Strange that it is the lower quality guns that seem to favour this approach, as it must be more difficult to manufacture than a simple notched piston.

I have made a quick comparison of the Chinese S2, Jung Roland and Diana 5, and I don’t think you can say one way or the other which one the S2 copies more closely. The cylinder OD, cylinder length, and overall gun length values are as follows: Jung-Roland: 28mm, 18.5 cm, 34 cm. S2: 29.4mm, 17.5 cm, 32.5 cm; Diana 5 (pre-war) : 28.7mm, 18 cm, 33.5 cm. So all very similar. The main difference is that the S2 has a frame fixing bolt in the base of the grip, as well as the four screws in the grip sides. The other two pistols rely just on the four side screws for fixing.

[ggggr]

Hi Guy,
If you are right about the RO71, RO72 and Mondial Oklahoma, then it looks like the use of ‘lugged’ pistons is a lot more common than I thought. Strange that it is the lower quality guns that seem to favour this approach, as it must be more difficult to manufacture than a simple notched piston.

I have made a quick comparison of the Chinese S2, Jung Roland and Diana 5, and I don’t think you can say one way or the other which one the S2 copies more closely. The cylinder OD, cylinder length, and overall gun length values are as follows: Jung-Roland: 28mm, 18.5 cm, 34 cm. S2: 29.4mm, 17.5 cm, 32.5 cm; Diana 5 (pre-war) : 28.7mm, 18 cm, 33.5 cm. So all very similar. The main difference is that the S2 has a frame fixing bolt in the base of the grip, as well as the four screws in the grip sides. The other two pistols rely just on the four side screws for fixing.

The reason I was thinking John is the S2 and the Jung Roland have cylinder end caps that are pinned and not a screwed on cap like that Diana. I did wonder whether the Jung Roland had a bolt through the grip.

Ah Well --If a REALLY CHEAP one came my way, I'd like a look at it, but having seen yours stripped, there is not really much to see



Danny has now added Johns pics to his site--here https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....tol/#post-5581

[draitzer]

John has provided more info than I possibly could - never stripped mine as I quickly realized it would be moving along. I recall the trigger being pretty staunch and the power reminiscent of an old ZVP.

As to your thought "Ah Well --If a REALLY CHEAP one came my way, I'd like a look at it, but having seen yours stripped, there is not really much to see", I can only say "Amen".

Don R.

[ccdjg]

I have just noticed that one of these Jung Roland pistols is currently available from Protek for £175. Not too bad a price retail. (Nothing to do with me I hasten to add!)

John